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Agree, my wifes Z400 is surprisingly fast. I hear the ninja 400's are getting same lap times as sv's, vibrates less too.
my 2004 sv 650s doesn't vibrate also, but I'm street, not race, that could be the differences.

Last night on You Tube I saw the new twin, all taped up for concealment, being ridden in Europe, speaker was British. 700cc's with only 70 hp.
 

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my 2004 sv 650s doesn't vibrate also, but I'm street, not race, that could be the differences.

Last night on You Tube I saw the new twin, all taped up for concealment, being ridden in Europe, speaker was British. 700cc's with only 70 hp.
Was it a tapped up DL with the new Gixxer headlamp?
 

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my 2004 sv 650s doesn't vibrate also, but I'm street, not race, that could be the differences.

Last night on You Tube I saw the new twin, all taped up for concealment, being ridden in Europe, speaker was British. 700cc's with only 70 hp.
If like me you are a V-Twin lover then a parallel twin is not for me and not really a ,"Successor" ? :)

As for vibrations no one should confuse the super smooth 90 Deg Transverse mounted SV650 engine with the inherently bad design of more acute angle V-Twins like Harleys. Suzuki engineers spent a lot of time and money designing an engine that was so well balanced it didn't even need a counter-weight ! :D

If anyone is getting vibrations then look at,

Carb/Fuel body sync first then...

Stiff points in drive chain.
Misaligned rear wheel.
Loose or worn Steering bearings.
Warped/damaged tires.
Worn wheel bearings.

HTH :)
 

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I'm not sure I understand how a 270 degree parallel twin would be any different from a 90 degree V twin. The firing interval is exactly the same. The old PT shake of both pistons starting and stopping simultaneously is mitigated by the 270 degree crank, as is the rocking couple of 180 degree designs. I'm a V2 guy too, but it seems all that goodness can be distilled into a lighter and simpler package with the use of a 270 degree crank. What am I missing?
 

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If like me you are a V-Twin lover then a parallel twin is not for me and not really a ,"Successor" ? :)

As for vibrations no one should confuse the super smooth 90 Deg Transverse mounted SV650 engine with the inherently bad design of more acute angle V-Twins like Harleys. Suzuki engineers spent a lot of time and money designing an engine that was so well balanced it didn't even need a counter-weight ! :D

If anyone is getting vibrations then look at,

Carb/Fuel body sync first then...

Stiff points in drive chain.
Misaligned rear wheel.
Loose or worn Steering bearings.
Warped/damaged tires.
Worn wheel bearings.

HTH :)
The sv twin is smooth as far as V-twin engines go. When you ride an in-line four, you’ll really feel the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I'm not sure I understand how a 270 degree parallel twin would be any different from a 90 degree V twin. The firing interval is exactly the same. The old PT shake of both pistons starting and stopping simultaneously is mitigated by the 270 degree crank, as is the rocking couple of 180 degree designs. I'm a V2 guy too, but it seems all that goodness can be distilled into a lighter and simpler package with the use of a 270 degree crank. What am I missing?
Take a look at pictures of crankshaft of sv650 and mt07 for example, plus mt07 needs crankshaft balancer for secondary balance.

90degree v twin only needs one counterweight in total for both cylinders and both primary and secondary balance.
270 parallel needs one counterweight per cylinder that in turn produce secondary imbalance, and that's why it needs balancer. (doesn't really need it but probably much smoother with it).

All other things being equal, for me, the only real advantage of parallel is weight and size.
I don't think they can be as reliable as a simple 90 degree with all those imbalances.
 

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I did not know about a secondary imbalance necessitating a balance shaft in a 270 PT, thank you, I'll look into it. As for reliability with "all those imbalances" though, I would encourage you to look at other successful designs - like every V6 ever built, as evidence of reliability in unbalanced engines. Now that I think about it, my 1058cc Kawasaki I-4 has a counterbalancer for secondary imbalance. IMO though, an internal counterbalancer would add far less weight and complexity than having to have an extra head and two extra cams along a second cam chain and tensioner.

But aesthetically yeah, V2's are cool and have been around for a long time. I'll mourn their passing along with everyone else, but as a motor head I got to go with efficiency and modern engineering. For the same reason I don't ride a Harley.
 

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Yeah, now reading the last sentence of my comment it can sounds a bit harsh with "all those imabalances" :)
I still think the yamaha cp2 is great engine and any other configuration can be great if done properly. It's just that I feel It's easier to engineer and less stuff can go wrong with 90 V2.
Yes it has double heads, cams, chains, tensioners. But that stuff seems simple compared to making perfect counter balancers .

Then again, I'm no engineer and could be totally wrong about everything I said. :D
 

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Yes, the rocking couple is reduced by half of that produced by a 180 PT, and further reduced, to the point it can be ignored, by the pistons not stopping and starting at the same time. Having never ridden a 270, I don't know if the tiny bit of rocking couple can be felt. But it seems a small price to pay for the reduction in weight, complexity, friction, manufacturing costs, and ease of maintenance afforded by the 270 PT.
 

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Vibration on my SV has never been a problem. I don't ever think about it. The seat, that is a different story. : -)

I4s I've had in the past were all "buzzy" in the 5 to 6k rpm range.

The Honda CBX inline-6. That must be the smoothest motorcycle engine ever.
 

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I'm not sure I understand how a 270 degree parallel twin would be any different from a 90 degree V twin. The firing interval is exactly the same. The old PT shake of both pistons starting and stopping simultaneously is mitigated by the 270 degree crank, as is the rocking couple of 180 degree designs. I'm a V2 guy too, but it seems all that goodness can be distilled into a lighter and simpler package with the use of a 270 degree crank. What am I missing?
Understanding balance in an engine isn't as simple as it may seem. Firing interval has little to do with mechanical balance. BMW boxer engines should have near perfect balance...but they do not because the crankpins are offset from each other ( one cylinder sits further forward than the other). 90 degree V twin engines ( not so much the 45 and 60 degree versions) do have a "good" natural balance yet still have offset connecting rods that interfere with that. Most, if not all, 90 degree v twins don't require a counterbalance shaft. While a 270 degree crank sounds like it should fix all problems....there is the fact that the cylinders are side by side. This complicates design of the counterweights and they have to have a counterbalance shaft. Even WITH a counterbalance shaft they have secondary imbalance vibrations. THAT is where I don't like the 270 degree parallel twin. It has less of the high amplitude vibrations down low ( due to counterbalance shaft) but more than makes up for that in low amplitude ( buzz) vibrations as you move up the rpm range. I find these set in about 4000 rpm on our Super Tenere. No one really cares for commuting or off road where you may be off and on the bike a good bit. But do 800+ mile days and the dreaded buzz gets to you. Most riders think riding a whole tank of fuel is a long trip, but do that back to back to back and so on you will not think the 270 degree parallel twin quite as smooth as the media writers seem to promote.
That said, the parallel twin absolutely has packaging and weight bias advantages over a v twin. Horsepower should be similar with modern technology. Yes, Aprilia and KTM's put out big power with parallel twins. But they are in a different price class. Very few are impressed with the Super Tenere or Africa Twin peak horsepower output! The new DL 1050 (1037cc) has as much or more power with a 20+ year old engine than the much more modern engines in these bikes.
 

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Thank you for that, realshelby. So a single throw V2 crank eliminates rocking couple all together whereas a 270 PT introduces a bit of it, right? I've been thinking about an NT1100 for my old age - and justifying its lower peak power as an acceptable trade-off for higher torque. You're the first one I've heard complain about vibration on the Super Tenere - kind of a buzz kill, so to speak.
 

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A single throw V2 crank with inline cylinders would have to run a knife and fork connecting rod setup ( Think Harley Davidson..) to NOT have rocking couple. Since that knife and fork setup brings more problems than it solves you will find side by side independent connecting rods in the 90 degree V Twins I am familiar with. Those DO have a rocking couple but with proper counterweight design that is mitigated. Without needing a complicated counterbalance shaft. A Parallel twin, 270 degree or otherwise, will have either rocking couple if crankpins are offset or momentum vibration if the crankpins are in line ( think CB 450 Honda or if you really want the Hell shaken out of you the 650 parallel twin Yamaha from the late 70's or 80's).
No reason a parallel twin would have more low rpm torque over a v twin. Engines don't know what brand is on the tank, and don't know what configuration they are. They simply do the job as the engineers tuned them to do. That starts with the cylinder head and how much air it can flow. Packaging can effect that greatly and each design has both advantages and disadvantages over other designs. I just don't really benefit from the slightly better forward weight and compact design of the parallel twin. I like the smoothness on long rides of the 90 degree v twin, and the sound.
Couple years back now my Son and I rode back from the V Strom Rally in Stecoah, NC. We live on the Southwest side of Houston. A few miles over 1000. Done that in one day. My Son said his hands were still numb two hours after we got off the bikes! My BMW RT has more vibes than his Tenere, but they are different and never cause your hands or feet to buzz up. Plenty of owners will tell you about S10 buzz, the ones that ride at higher speeds for longer distances know what I speak of for sure!
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
I went ahead and tried the silicone in the handlebars, what a nightmare! I decided to leave the bars on the bike and inject silicone from one end until it came out the other. What I forgot was the Z400 handlebar had two holes in it for the Z400 controls. While injecting the silicone I noticed silicone pouring out of the on/off, starter clamshell controls. It filled the entire inside before pouring out all over the place. I spent several hours removing and cleaning with whatever I had available as the silicone was siting up, mineral spirts, kerosene, WD40, Armor All, whole roll of paper towels, millions of Q tip...silicone is no joke, difficult to clean up. All this while it was 117 in Sacto, maybe 120+ in my garage, awful!

The next day I installed the silicone filled steel bar. The vibration still there, just different, deeper frequency.
I removed it and installed a Rizoma Aluminum bar and now it's much better, very little detected vibrations. It seems Aluminum is much better than steel in dampening vibration.

It totally blows my mind hearing from legit folks here that say their sv doesn't vibrate. This last couple years I've rode 4 SVs, 2 triumph street triple, 1 triumph street triple RS, 2 MT09 and a Z900 (was the smoothest) they all show some form of vibration, all do. I wonder what you folks are feeling in your handlebars and seat. Maybe what your feeling is what I'm calling vibration? Without a doubt you must be feeling something?
 

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I am cringing at the thought of silicone filling the controls on my bike 😭 I'm glad you got it cleaned up.

I guess vibration is relative; I don't even run bar end weights on my clip-ons and have no issues with bad vibes. Perhaps I'm just used to it, but then again I've never really had issues with that on any of my bikes anywhere from single to four-cylinder engines.

Here is one vibration-related issue I noticed shortly after getting the SV: while wearing jeans and riding for an hour plus, the wedding tackle goes numb. I'm not making this up, and I had never heard of that happening on these bikes. Maybe just me? Or TMI? The solution was to wear actual riding gear instead of jeans.
 
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