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why do harleys cost so much?

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#201 ·
507phantom said:
i agree that not all harleys cost more than all other bikes. and i understand that things generally cost what people will pay. i've never called harleys overpriced, nor have i said that ducatis are great deals.

what i am looking for, is while i understand where the $15k to ducati goes, i don't understand where that same amount of money goes when you buy the similarly priced harley. i see expenses at ducati that harley doesn't have. if the ducati has more expensive parts, it races at the highest levels, i imagine the r&d to be more expensive, they also have low production numbers. so that extra money just means the profit margins on the harley are higher?
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So you don't think harley does R&D? Do you honestly believe the bikes they produce now have anything in common with the AMF harleys? Just because its not bred for racing doesn't mean its design is not a continually evolving and tweaked to excel in the areas that its intended for. They aren't built for the track, so why do you continue to compare its "technology" to high performance bikes? R&D can be used for things other than performance.

Would you compare a Wrangler to an EVO and complain that they cost the same even though the EVO is so much more "high tech"? They are two different animals developed for two different jobs and the argument doesn't make much sense does it?
 
#202 ·
507phantom said:
show me where the logic is lacking in my question -

why, specifically, would a street bob cost more than a speed triple.
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the ENTIRE reason it costs more (and sells) is because people will pay more for a street bob than a speed triple. you could try to break it down to exact costs to manufacture or profit margins or who gets paid what to build and market it. but all of that is entirely unrelated to the end. if Harley could not get more money for a street bob than a speed triple from their customers, they wouldnt be selling them for more than a speed triple.

macroeconomics or cost to build are entirely irrelevant in this discussion.

the money might NOT go into the bike, it might cost $57.95 to produce and engineer the entire bike, and another $23.56 to sell it at a dealership. that means harley would get a HUGE profit on that bike.

really, none of that matters. ALL that matters in the pricing of the motorcycles that sell, is that the bike will actually sell and that the company gets more money for the bike than they paid to produce and sell it.

clearly, Harley can ask more for the street bob than triumph can ask for the speed triple. the most all inclusive reason is that people will pay more for whatever reason they want.

to deny the reason above will only cement that you want no actual reason and merely wish to continue bashing HD products. get over it, their following and customers are more loyal and their brand name is worth more, go cry
 
#208 ·
This thread is like a train wreck though. I just can't look away. Too much fun to watch all the stupid. ;D

Wait... sorry... too much fun to watch all the ... competitive intelligence? :dontknow:
 
#209 ·
I tried that. It didn't work. It's like trying not to watch a train wreck. :eek:
 
#213 ·
Also at the end of the day if you are able to sell the bike for close to what you paid for it then it really is not the expensive. For an example of how good HD's resale is they put on a deal from time to time that if you buy a sporty 883 new then you can sell it back a couple years down the road and they will give you all your money back.
 
Discussion starter · #217 ·
Dichotomous said:
the most all inclusive reason is that people will pay more for whatever reason they want.
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i understand that. i understood that before i started this retarded thread. i was looking for specifics. like, say, if harley employees made more than the average suzuki employee (i don't know if they do or don't), and someone who knew that stepped in and said that, i'd respond "oh, well that makes sense." or if someone said that they know harley uses less automation (note i didn't say none), and more people i'd say "oh, people cost more than robots, so that would drive the cost up that makes sense." the generic "its supply and demand you moron" only tells me the painfully obvious. for all you captain obvious' that keep insisting that econ 101 is the only answer, i get it, you've been saying the same thing for some 200 or so posts. and i keep saying, i'd be interested in knowing specifically where does harley spend its money differently form anyone else. not that i think there's anything wrong with the way they spend their money, i've never said a single negative thing about harley this entire thread.



Dichotomous said:
to deny the reason above will only cement that you want no actual reason and merely wish to continue bashing HD products. get over it, their following and customers are more loyal and their brand name is worth more, go cry
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when did i ever deny it? all i wanted was something deeper, and all i hear is "supply and damand," thats it. that doesn't answer where the money goes. i have no idea why no one gets this. i'm at a loss.
 
#219 ·
So, speaking of Harley automation, anyone seen the machine they use to lace and true wheels? It's freaking super cool. They do check them by hand, but the initial process is done on a machine that looks like it could eat me, and is VERY expensive. I'll see if I can go dig up a picture of it.

Yes, off topic, but I believe the topic is done, so I figured interesting factoids would be a good thing to throw in.
 
#220 ·
507phantom said:
when did i ever deny it? all i wanted was something deeper, and all i hear is "supply and damand," thats it. that doesn't answer where the money goes. i have no idea why no one gets this. i'm at a loss.
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Here. It took all of 10 seconds to find this through google.

http://investor.harley-davidson.com/StatementsBalanceSheets.cfm

HARLEY-DAVIDSON, INC.
ANNUAL INCOME STATEMENTS
Unaudited
YEAR ENDED DECEMBER 31
(IN THOUSANDS, EXCEPT PER SHARE AMOUNTS)


2008 2007 2006 2005 2004
NET REVENUE:
H-D® Motorcycle $4,278,241 $4,446,637 $4,553,561 $4,183,515 $3,928,232
Parts & Accessories 858,748 868,297 862,251 815,678 781,621
General Merchandise 313,835 305,435 277,490 247,861 223,712
Buell® Motorcycle 123,086 100,534 102,227 93,069 79,029
Defense and Other 20,397 5,945 5,157 2,091 2,596
5,594,307 5,726,848 5,800,686 5,342,214 5,015,190

Gross Profit 1,930,819 2,114,100 2,232,847 2,040,499 1,899,535
HDMC Operating Exp 964,429 883,457 823,857 740,634 710,016
HDMC Operating Income 966,390 1,230,643 1,408,990 1,299,865 1,189,519
HDFS Operating Income 82,765 212,169 210,724 191,620 188,600
Corporate Operating Exp 20,131 17,251 22,561 21,474 16,628
Total Operating Income 1,029,024 1,425,561 1,597,153 1,470,011 1,361,491
Investment Income 9,495 22,258 27,087 17,748 17,995
Interest Expense 4,542 - - - -
Income Before Provision for Taxes 1,033,977 1,447,819 1,624,240 1,487,759 1,379,486
Provision for Income Taxes 379,259 513,976 581,087 528,155 489,720
Net Income from Continuing Ops 654,718 933,843 1,043,153 959,604 889,766
Net Income (Loss) from Disc Ops - - - - -
Extraordinary Items - - - - -
Net Income $654,718 $933,843 $1,043,153 $959,604 $889,766

Basic/Primary Earnings per Common Share: $2.80 $3.75 $3.94 $3.42 $3.02

Diluted Earnings per Common Share: $2.79 $3.74 $3.93 $3.41 $3.00

Weighted Ave Shares:
Basic 234,225 249,205 264,453 280,303 295,045
Diluted 234,477 249,882 265,273 281,035 296,890

Dividends Paid $1.290 $1.060 $0.810 $0.625 $0.405

Domestic Revenue 3,853,242 4,206,427 4,629,895 4,347,087 4,097,882
International Revenue 1,741,065 1,520,421 1,170,791 995,127 917,308
5,594,307 5,726,848 5,800,686 5,342,214 5,015,190

2 for 1 stock splits: 6/90, 6/92, 9/94, 9/97, and 4/00.
Note: Per FASB's Emerging Issues Task Force on "Accounting for Shipping and Handling Fee and Costs" and "Accounting for Certain Sales Incentive", certain 2000 and 2001 year balances have been reclassified.
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That's where the money went. :tard:

Can we please close this now. I feel like the proverbial moth circling too close to the ban flame.
 
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