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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
CDNSVS said:
Not to hijack this thread or revisit an old and annoying thread but rear braking is a complete waste of time and as you noted basically caused your crash. Stick with the front brake only and you'll have a much better chance of staying upright.

WillyT, you can't add something like "I've probably crashed more times than you" to your sig-line without giving the rest of us a chance at the record. :D

Including YSR racing crashes, I have probably met the pavement 17 or 18 times in my 19 years of riding. And that doesn't include the three times I survived a bike-bike collision without falling down. :shock:
Normally I'd say you were right, but if you saw the dragon you'd know that's not possible. If you were using front brake all the time there you would definately have a much worse accident than mine. You have to realize there are 318 turns in 11 miles (most of them 90 degrees to 180 degrees)and everyone of them has some sort of banking. If you used only front brake at the dragon you would be over the bars in a couple miles.
Otherwise I agree with you, anywhere else I use mostly front brake. I have talked to many people there about this exact topic and some of the fastest guys out there say you need trail braking there.
 

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not getting back into that conversation :) But just to say, trail braking's actually done with the front, and is all about weight distribution. It's just been recently misappropriated to mean dragging the rear through a corner.
 

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Trail Braking

Why don't you guys elaborate a little more about how Trail braking is done for those that do not know?
 

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Trail braking is not "only the front" or "the rear," it braking into a corner period where u already have started to lean the bike over. There is a saying that to be truely fast u are either accelerating or braking....nothing in between. Thus u are trail braking all the way through a corner until the apex (or at any point where u can start to apply throttle).

I just came back from Deal's Gap. I can do it with just the front, or front and rear. Never been over the handle bars. :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Ok, from what I just read on that link, you're supposed to use both?

I was just reporting what some of the guys at the Gap told me. They were saying you definately need to use rear brake there. Now those were the guys i saw knees on the ground, screaming around the turns, and going faster than I dare to. Now they could be wrong but I haven't seen anyone much faster there. I've ridden there say about 11 or 12 times in the last couple of months.
If I'm really riding fast there I only use the front to slow you down BEFORE the turn, but I have many times found the turn getting tighter than I thought and had to brake in the turn, which if I used the front brake would have caused nose dive and a little wobble in the bars, therefore a less stable bike in the turn. Thus why I use back brake in the turns there.
Now I could be wrong, I don't claim to be a pro rider or anything, but would someone please tell me what is right. Should I be using front or rear in turns, I mean already heading towards the apex.
 

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Again, trail braking is not a front or rear thing, it's a "U are braking while leaning thing."

As for which brake to use? I think it's up to whatever u are more comfortable with. Myself, I trail brake with the front since I feel I have more feel as to what the front tire is doing and I can be more precise with my hand on the front brake rather than my foot on the rear. But it really is YMMV in this case IMO.
 

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If you are riding ROSSI HARD.

Not something I would/could ever do on the street you would be at maximum brake with the front AND rear just prior to leaning the bike over and would be slowly releasing both until at the apex you had no brake and would then begining rolling on the throttle all the way out until the turn was complete at which point you would be WFO.

Increasing your braking force while leaning over is the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Well mine happened mostly because it was wet. That's why I went down. I don't think it would have mattered which brake I used it would have been a matter of losing traction in the front or back, and I think it would have been worse if I had the front slding across the road. Though if I was smart I would have trusted my tires and tried to make the turn instead of excessively using brake.
 

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Like said before it is not front or rear, but breaking while turning. Only point I have is the more you lean the less amount of braking allowable with the front. You are balancing braking traction with turning traction, when Keith Code says accelerate through the curve.......I think King Kenny also had the slow in fast out approach :twisted:

Sorry to hear about the crash. Get her up and running soon.
 

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Trail braking is a very advanced and dangerous technique of using the brakes into the corner, to the apex. Usually the best method is to brake in a straight line and then release the brakes before leaning into the corner.

Trail braking has nothing to do with the front-rear discussion.

I am just beginning to learn to trail brake and judge front traction. It is an odd sensation, but on an SV with its spindly little forks, I can actually feel the forks flex when cornering and braking at the same time.

I'd suggest this is not something you want to do on the street but nobody will listen anyway so have at 'er. :?

If I'm really riding fast there I only use the front to slow you down BEFORE the turn, but I have many times found the turn getting tighter than I thought and had to brake in the turn, which if I used the front brake would have caused nose dive and a little wobble in the bars, therefore a less stable bike in the turn. Thus why I use back brake in the turns there.
Why would using the front brake mid turn cause the bars to wobble?

You'd be better off just leaning the bike over further than trying to slow down. If the corner tightens, lean your body into it further and lean the bike over further. Unless you greatly overestimated the speed, there should be no need to brake.

How do you use the back brake in the middle of a right hand turn?
 

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OK, just to recap slightly, trail braking's now used to mean any sort of braking into a corner but that's a sort of reinterpretation, originally it meant front braking into a corner to shift the weight onto the front wheel- this is from waaaay back, 60s style racing. The clue's in the name, trail braking- trail-breking- leading from the front basically. Your history lesson endeth here :)
 

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I personally would sum it up this way. The problem, as you guys have touched on, is panic. Most inexperienced riders(including my humble self) have a "gremlin" of wanting to slow down when hitting a corner too hot. Applying the front or rear brake in a "uncomfortable pucker".

The bottom line, as CNDSVS put it, you are much better off just leaning the bike over more, trusting the tires, and NOT panicing by grabbing the brake.

Just my Two Cents.
 

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Most inexperienced riders(including my humble self) have a "gremlin" of wanting to slow down when hitting a corner too hot.
Don't be too hard on yourself. This is a natural and reasonable self preservation reaction.

Even as a racer, I still have issues with this sometimes. The brakes are like a security blanket and it can be hard to let go of them. Sometimes I have to force myself to let go of the brakes and dive into the corner. It is especially hard in a slow corner with a fast entrance and it does take experience and a leap of faith to overcome.
 

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CDNSVS---

Well said!
 

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"The Fight"

knee-dragger777 said:
I personally would sum it up this way. The problem, as you guys have touched on, is panic. Most inexperienced riders(including my humble self) have a "gremlin" of wanting to slow down when hitting a corner too hot. Applying the front or rear brake in a "uncomfortable pucker".

The bottom line, as CNDSVS put it, you are much better off just leaning the bike over more, trusting the tires, and NOT panicing by grabbing the brake.

Just my Two Cents.
I agree.....an experienced road racer buddy taught me that once you brake and stand the bike up your about to take "The fight" out of the ring. You always have a better chance staying in the ring so-to-speak. Its easier said than done but the look and lean approach is the best. Once you fixate on the edge of the road your taking "The fight out of the ring". Always look where you wanna go.

Craig
'05 SV650S
 
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