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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, Today I was riding and all of a sudden the bike starts to stall out, then it was ok with intermittent stalling with backfiring, I came to a stop and cut out.

Everytime i start the bike in netrual, it starts fine no problem.

I assumed it was the sidestand switch, so I cut it and spliced the wires together after the contector.

I have also cut and spliced the clutch switch aswell just incase.

I assumed this has resolved the problem and drove about 10 miles without any problems, Just as I was getting back I opened bike up, (Which previously I realised caused the bike to stall and created the problem each time from when it first happened)

And it miss fired and stalled out, this is with the side stand and clutch switch bridged.

I came to a stop and put into netrual and it started no problem, As soon as I select a gear 2nd or 1st the bike would stall immediately, After Several attempts of starting and selecting a gear to get home it stays started, I am able to ride home but I noticed my revs are surging like its cutting out intermittently but not completely.

its an 02 Sv650 s 19400 miles serviced less than 600 miles ago.
 

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Double-check the side-stand switch bypass. Also, the problem could be further up at the side-stand switch connector or interconnect wires or harness. The side-stand switch itself may not have been the problem in the first place.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Double-check the side-stand switch bypass. Also, the problem could be further up at the side-stand switch connector or interconnect wires or harness. The side-stand switch itself may not have been the problem in the first place.
I do agree, I dont think the side stand switch was the problem to start with, It has now been eliminated anyway by connecting the 2 cables together, I havent cut the cables on the loom, I kept the block connector and cut short from that and wired the cables.

So its possible it could even be the block connector, or the wiring further up the loom>?
If thats the case, Is it possible that the cables may be loose in the relay?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Double-check the side-stand switch bypass. Also, the problem could be further up at the side-stand switch connector or interconnect wires or harness. The side-stand switch itself may not have been the problem in the first place.
so from my understanding of looking at the diagram, everything works as it should, natural switch turns off using the sidestandswitch as a relay to ignition coil, it starts in neutral which rules out majority of problems, like coil and starter etc.
so it has to be the sidestand/indicator relay is faulty and isnt opening the connection to the sidestand switch, or somewhere coming from the side stand switch is abreak and its shorted not closing the circuit.
on the right lines?
 

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cial, is the engine currently shutting off 100% of the time (hard failure) when shifting from Neutral to 1st or 2nd?

If yes, then do not touch/move anything that might make the problem go away. A few simple voltage tests will reveal where the problem is.

Hard failures are easy to find, intermittent failures can drive you crazy.

Do you have a voltmeter?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
cial, is the engine currently shutting off 100% of the time (hard failure) when shifting from Neutral to 1st or 2nd?

If yes, then do not touch/move anything that might make the problem go away. A few simple voltage tests will reveal where the problem is.

Hard failures are easy to find, intermittent failures can drive you crazy.

Do you have a voltmeter?
Yes completely shutting off, I am positive its the relay breaking down under usage as the circuit heats up the relay and then under heavy load it breaks down causing me to be stranded, while messing with the wires wiggling stuff and having bridged the connections for fail safes and it dosnt intermittently work at all it will then all of a sudden work, with no intermittent cutting out when I played with the wires or tugged on them, in my understanding if the relay is breaking down it will open the circuit causing no power through that circuit to the ignition coil.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
cial, is the engine currently shutting off 100% of the time (hard failure) when shifting from Neutral to 1st or 2nd?

If yes, then do not touch/move anything that might make the problem go away. A few simple voltage tests will reveal where the problem is.

Hard failures are easy to find, intermittent failures can drive you crazy.

Do you have a voltmeter?
Yes I have a voltmeter, also to clarify more, I know now after researching and understanding the problem more I could go down to the bike now start it and select gear no problem or even start it in gear clutch in or out obviously will jerk if clutch is out, which in theory should rule out a loose connection as it wouldn't fix itself from just letting the bike stand for a few minutes, from what I gathered that's what is happening after a few minutes it works again, the relay would then be suspect right? Sticking because it's getting to hot or breaking down?
 

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... I could go down to the bike now start it and select gear no problem or even start it in gear...
The engine is no longer dying when put in gear?

So the problem has changed to intermittent failure after running for a few minutes? Is the failure consistent?

To verify if this problem is related to the sidestand really, look for 12v on Orange/Black. Back-probe the relay to make contact on O/B. Start the bike, if voltage drops out on O/B exactly when the engine dies then you know for sure there is a problem with the sidestand relay or relay control.
56515


If this problem is due to failing sidestand relay internal contacts then the engine should die even with the bike sitting in neutral.

Just to be sure, is the idle set high enough, should be 1300 RPM? Dying when the bike is put in gear can also be due to too low idle along with clutch drag.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
The engine is no longer dying when put in gear?

So the problem has changed to intermittent failure after running for a few minutes? Is the failure consistent?

To verify if this problem is related to the sidestand really, look for 12v on Orange/Black. Back-probe the relay to make contact on O/B. Start the bike, if voltage drops out on O/B exactly when the engine dies then you know for sure there is a problem with the sidestand relay or relay control.
View attachment 56515

If this problem is due to failing sidestand relay internal contacts then the engine should die even with the bike sitting in neutral.

Just to be sure, is the idle set high enough, should be 1300 RPM? Dying when the bike is put in gear can also be due to too low idle along with clutch drag.
No clutch drag, and idle is fine, yes it's intermittent as in it will happen when everything gets hot by the seems of it, its not been going on a long time, I knew it would work this morning and it did, as it did yesterday after I left it sit but then after a while riding it started again, I don't think it's the relay itself bit the diode inside which is breaking down when being used, as why it still gives power to natural, but cuts out when selecting gear as its over heated from use.
I have bought a new relay tho cost 10.99 gbp new.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The engine is no longer dying when put in gear?

So the problem has changed to intermittent failure after running for a few minutes? Is the failure consistent?

To verify if this problem is related to the sidestand really, look for 12v on Orange/Black. Back-probe the relay to make contact on O/B. Start the bike, if voltage drops out on O/B exactly when the engine dies then you know for sure there is a problem with the sidestand relay or relay control.
View attachment 56515

If this problem is due to failing sidestand relay internal contacts then the engine should die even with the bike sitting in neutral.

Just to be sure, is the idle set high enough, should be 1300 RPM? Dying when the bike is put in gear can also be due to too low idle along with clutch drag.
My understanding is the diode receives a certain voltage and based on that the ecu knows if the stand switch is opened or closed, I would imagine when it's in neutral the diode isn't receiving a load as its passing through the neutral switch to the ignition but when a gear is selected the diode then gets power and activates the switch on the stand to the ignition coil, my guess is after a while the diode is over heating and then closing the connection or giving a wrong voltage reading so the ecu thinks the switch has been activated.
 

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Did you look for 12v on O/B when the engine cut out? You want to catch the failure in the act to be certain you have isolated the problem.

Given the side-stand switch is permanently bypassed O/B should be 12v at all times. It doesn't matter what the neutral switch is doing or if the diodes are good or not, they do not matter.

If O/B is 0v then either the relay has failed or there is a poor connection on the Green side-stand switch to Ground. To check the ground, back-probe directly at the relay. That will eliminate any chance of a bad sidestand wire or connector.

The diode(s) are not the problem, see the image below. So long as the Green side-stand wire makes good contact to Ground, the side-stand relay will be energized.
56558
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Did you look for 12v on O/B when the engine cut out? You want to catch the failure in the act to be certain you have isolated the problem.

Given the side-stand switch is permanently bypassed O/B should be 12v at all times. It doesn't matter what the neutral switch is doing or if the diodes are good or not, they do not matter.

If O/B is 0v then either the relay has failed or there is a poor connection on the Green side-stand switch to Ground. To check the ground, back-probe directly at the relay. That will eliminate any chance of a bad sidestand wire or connector.

The diode(s) are not the problem, see the image below. So long as the Green side-stand wire makes good contact to Ground, the side-stand relay will be energized.
View attachment 56558
So I'll have to take the bike out in a few days to replicate the problem, I'll try it with the new relay which will rule that out if it does happen again.
I'll test the connections then, your probably right and its a short on the ground from the srand
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
OK so it's not the relay or any switches, seems my ignition coil for the front cylinder is playing up, it will electrocute me when I touch it while the bikes running, I'm sure it shouldn't do that so I'm going to order a new one, I guess it would arc on the frame and surge when engine under load hence it only happening at higher revs.

Seems to have happened aswell because the airbox filter drain/overflow pipe hasn't been attached because its snapped and was blowing directly onto the front cylinder ignition coil, hot air and unburnt fuel i would imagine has caused it to fail prematurely.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Did you look for 12v on O/B when the engine cut out? You want to catch the failure in the act to be certain you have isolated the problem.

Given the side-stand switch is permanently bypassed O/B should be 12v at all times. It doesn't matter what the neutral switch is doing or if the diodes are good or not, they do not matter.

If O/B is 0v then either the relay has failed or there is a poor connection on the Green side-stand switch to Ground. To check the ground, back-probe directly at the relay. That will eliminate any chance of a bad sidestand wire or connector.

The diode(s) are not the problem, see the image below. So long as the Green side-stand wire makes good contact to Ground, the side-stand relay will be energized.
View attachment 56558
I changed the coil thst was giving off sparks from the body, the new one doesn't do that. So that was a problem to replace, It has not fixed the problem, I have only road the bike once for about 1 mile, it rides fine below 6k revs, as soon as put above 5.5k 6k it will cut out fully like the kill switch has been hit and then starts back up, in that 1 mile it also cut out completely, and wouldn't let me start it in gear, I came to a stop and it started in neutral straight away, again anytime after 6k any gear aswell so it's not speed relevant it will cut out for a second, it won't let me above 6k.
 

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I would replace the plug wires. That's usually where the high voltage leaks out from, and they are susceptible to breaking down with heat.

One way to test would be to spritz the wires with water and see if you can get the bike to stumble or stall.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I
I would replace the plug wires. That's usually where the high voltage leaks out from, and they are susceptible to breaking down with heat.

One way to test would be to spritz the wires with water and see if you can get the bike to stumble or stall.
It's a bit of a ball ache as the ht leads aren't sold separately and I've already bought the coil, from visual inspection the lead looks to be in good condition. I'll try what you said, I'm also going to clean the fuel filter and replace inline tank filter just incase it may be fuel starvation at higher revs, tho it really feels electrical, I don't loose electrics it just like I tapped the kill switch, with it occasionally not starting in gear but always starting in neutral and also then cutting out as soon as a gear is selected, but the cutting out when selecting gear seems to have gone away?

Was riding fine for 400 miles 11k on each gear and no problems at all, prior. Bike used nearly everyday also.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I would replace the plug wires. That's usually where the high voltage leaks out from, and they are susceptible to breaking down with heat.

One way to test would be to spritz the wires with water and see if you can get the bike to stumble or stall.
I'm also gonna change both spark plugs, don't know when they wear changed last and I have been giving her a blasting for a few months, if thst front coil has been breaking down the front plug could easily be soiled from lack of spark, I feel something has been shorted because of the coil arcing on the frame and surging it has taken something else out with it, I don't know if that's likely or not, maybe on a newer model with more sensors.
 
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