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Discussion Starter #1
I snapped a chain last week.

Yup. Never had that happen in 40 years of riding... it came apart, (right!), at the master link. The chain had 13K miles on it... but it goes to show how important it is to install those rivet links carefully.

SO.. when this happened I was trying to do just a little wheelie out in the forests of a nearby state park. POP. Not only was I out of power...there was OIL pouring out of the bottom of the bike.

Okay.. four hours and one (AMA-covered) tow home...25 miles $275, whew, get your tow insurance, boys... I pulled it apart and found the chain hadn't done much damage, than God...I was only going slowly at the time.. but it pulled the clutch pushrod seal out of line and that's where the oil was from.

OKAY... so, no big deal.. I found a good price on an RK GXW chain... a new JT rear sprocket...and decided to use the front sprocket as it had very little wear.
Being Good & Cautious I bought a new pushrod seal, (just to be tidy).. and installed that.
All Good.

Two days later... FIFTY FEET from the place where I'd last broken down in the forest, I noticed... burning oil smell... looked down and there was oil pissing out. FIFTY FEET from the l;ast time.. I sh*t you not!

But this time I was DETERMINED... and headed off down the nearest local highway... SMOKE pouring off the back like I was fumigating mosquitos. I was just waiting for the red OIL light to come on... then I'd be stuck. But I pulled over at a cheap gas station and threw a quart of Mobil car oil into it.. and .. well eventually I DID make it home thank Christ... without the oil light coming on. SMOKE behind me like Pearl Harbor.

SO... problem? THE PUSHROD SEAL AGAIN. That little f**ker just SITS in that bore.. NO backstopo or lip... and the one thing I didn't do was to LUBRICATE the shaft... so, with a fresh, tight seal,... the pushrod simply pulled it in and out until it was cocked enough.

Solution?
1) Rough-up the inner bore edges on the case where the seal rides with 220 paper..
2) Smear Suzuki Bond JT2108 around the seal edges... install GENTLY because when it's slick, that thing will just pop into the cases. Let Dry overnight... smear a little MORE bonder around the outer edges...

And now it's firm. haven't started it just yet (still busy cleaning off all the damn OIL from all over the rear of the bike)... But I think it should be fine now.

MORAL: BE CAREFUL of how you seat / treat that little puppy. It was a LOUSY design by our Zook bretheren in Hamamatsu.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
welll... the seal popped out AGAIN.

Long story short, I believe it may have been due to a glob of Suzuki bond that may or may not have been blocking the oil galley drain hole behind the seal.. and too much oil was building-up behind the seal and not being drained.
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IN THE MEANTIME.. while I hate to do it, I think I'll pull the clutch cover off, to check the condition of a) the Driveshaft bearings, (as I snapped a chain going 2 mph - wheelie-).. and b) the condition of the aluminum pushrod, (as the chain bent the steel rod by 1.2mm).

I wish taking that clutch cover off was easier; I hate draining all fluids to do so.
On my Bandit 12 I can have the clutch out and on the table in TEN MINUTES or less.. without even draining the oil.
:naughty:
 

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Hey Greg!
Is the seal popping OUT...or going IN too deep? If it's coming out...how does it get past the seal retainer? According to the manual the seal is just pushed in to flush or nearly so with the retainer over it. Of course...if oil pressure can build up behind it things aren't going to work out so well.

I've had both pushrods out several times and really doubt that anything was hurt beyond the outer one being hit by the chain. If it moves smoothly there's likely no problem though it never hurts to do a deep inspection just to be sure.

Oh...have you cleared out your PM box lately? I think the last one I sent you about the ECU bounced due to it being full..?? You will LOVE the new tune man!!:)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Rob! [Yup...my PM box has been clean for a number of days]

PUSHROD SEAL

I have spent LOTS of time on this little f***er. I've installed new ones twice.. only to have them pop out again.. (ALWAYS up in Harriman Park, 25 miles away... makes for an exciting run home).

Oil pressure seemed to be pushing it out...cocking-it. I tried using Suzuki Bond.. but if the stuff was even slightly tacky the seal would slip out under the interference pressure. The seal retainer, (I bought a new one), has not seemed to really help much; the seal just twists a little in the housing ('cause there's no backstop... awesome design there, Hammamatsu), and out comes the juice.
I have gone over the retainer condition and placement this week...the tiny slot between the case and the magneto cover is clogged with some sheet metal (part of the mag cover gasket I assume?)... I have cleared that away as much as possible, so hopefully I'll get a better fit for the retainer tang. It may have not been fully seated previously, although the bolts went in fine.

SO... eventually I found a glob of the RTV RIGHT AT the lower oil drain hole in the little galley behind the seal; and it's very possible.. even likely.. that I'd clogged the hole and too much oil was collecting in there. [How much oil pressure is normally behind that seal?]
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Yes Yes... I have cleaned that Suzuki Bond off the bearing shield.

Anyway I'm hoping that's it.
I've seen the video on the other site about the poor guy who had trans bearing damage and the whole shaft would move... I'm not seeing that, thank God.

Anyway I'm hoping that removing the glob will relieve the pressure on the back of the seal... and she'll finally stay put. I'm gettin' tired of doing the neighborhood a favor and fogging for mosquitoes!

PS...I have an idea for a simple device that could be used behind the seal to really shore it up firmly... more on this, if it looks fruitful.

ECU... Can't wait!
 

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That seal is one I've not had to mess with...yet.:) Wondering if TWO seals would fit in the hole...the back one acting as a spacer to keep the outer working seal from twisting? Or your idea of a spacer to do the same thing?

I can't say what kind of pressure should be behind the seal...I don't think it's pressurized by oil but would certainly see crankcase pressure pulsing though by the time this got bad enough to actually blow out such a seal I'd expect the airbox to show lots of oil as evidence.

The latest ECU runs super clean up to at least 6000 rpm then ramps up the fuel so even YOU 'should' be able to extend your range a bit with it.:) I ran over 100 miles up on I-79 and 68 toward Cumberland never under 75 and lots of 100's and a few blasts to 125'ish (hell road that...long steep fast climbs with lots of turns begging for throttle to pass all the dawdling cars and trucks...which I'm powerless to ignore) then 75 more to and from in the 60-70 range and got over 53 for the average. Never broke 50 on that run before so it's definitely an improvement over my most frugal tune and way better than what I sent you. Didn't want to throw the whole thing at your bike right at first...wasn't sure how it would react, but if it didn't choke on the CG tune...it will probably run fine on this one too.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #6


You can't .. or shouldn't... double-up on that seal as there are two oil passages behind the seal, in a small galley area... one at 7 o'clock that is presumably a drain, and one at 2 o'clock that may be the feed.



I believe these are there to supply oil to the output shaft bearing.

If you double-up on the seals, you may be blocking-off oil flow, as I can see it. Also, the inner seal would likely press against the spinning inner-ring of the output bearing.

But I think there must be some kind of pressure in that area, due to the oil galleys and oil jets in the same passages.

When i last started the bike up, with the sprocket cover and everything off...just the seal and pushrod... a LOT of oil started pushing past the seal...on the outside permieter!

So again... I'm hoping that I had blocked off that little hole above; it makes sense that like a toilet bowl it may have attracted that blob of RTV to the drain hole.
 

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Oil jet is bellow and in the hole feeding oil to shafts. Pressure after jet is pretty low.
Oil comes in behind seal and feeds both shafts (hole you think is drain) and oil pipe that drips oil on to transmission gears. Oil flows through the shafts to lube clutch and gears/bushings.
If you block hole you create pressure.
Personally I clean and dry area when installing seal.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well it's looking pretty grim here for this SV guy.
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vault tec boy
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I've tried everything I can do to replace / glue / shore-up that seal.. and still it won't stay in place, once the bike gets underway. I even went as far as to buy a new retainer plate, cut it, and fab-up an independent plate for the seal, which I screwed onto the plate...drilled a 6mm hole in the case, tapped it, and thought everything was really sturdy now.
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post picture
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Started the bike up and it immediately started putting out oil.

I don't see anywhere else where oil could be coming from. No cracks in the case or oil from the Output shaft seal.. It may be the case that the seal bore hole has gotten distorted from the chain break, and the seal just won't saty in place. (I DID use a snap-gage on that hole.. only found a .1mm out-of-round condition; but getting good measurements across the DEPTH of the bore was tough .. the snap gage would snap open INSIDE the case and it was a b*tch to get it out each time).

SO... it may come down to either rebuilding the motor with a new case half... or just replacing the motor with a donor.

Nice, huh? For such a tiny little problem.
 

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Your drilled and tapped holes for the new retainer plate have gone through the lips of the seal...yes? Looks like you've created more of a problem than what you've been trying to solve.

The pic with the screw holes....is this before trying it or after? The seal is out way farther than it should be.. center should be flush with the retainer is what the manual shows after installation.

Can you measure with the pushrod installed from rod to seal bore....perhaps it's been shifted? At least this might show you where a low spot is? If you find where it's low, some JB Weld and careful sanding could get the bore back to round which should hold the seal properly.

Do you have any pictures of the seal when it's popped out? How the heck can the flange of the seal get out past the retainer? Or...it's not out past the retainer but leaking behind it?

Looks like a simple round shim over the seal lip and under the retainer would hold it from coming out...yes? Not understanding what's going on here Greg....:(
 

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Is it possible you have a pinched or blocked hose/air valve?

Especially when the motor revs up, there are lots of air pressure pulses that can pop seals out if not vented properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, here's the next wrinkle-

I started the motor today and looked at the seal/retainer config I had made; oil seemed to be coming out of one of the sheet-metal screws that I'd used to fasten the seal to the retainer plate.

So I pulled it apart and tried reassembling it.. this time with a previous seal (okay on the outside but a bit stretched in the center hole). I used my home-made nylon spacer behind the seal this time, to hold the seal from moving inwards .. and the fabbed outer retainer, bolted to the case, this time with no screws attaching it, but the plate preventing the seal from moving OUT.
Result:

No leakage.
After ten minutes, (and all the tons of previously spewed oil burning off), the thing sat there and ran with only some light weepage from the seal center hole.

Promising! But I noticed the pushrod end moving...oscillating up and down a little. I put my thumb over the end, and could feel a bit of a ..hmm.. warp vibration...

So I'm wondering if, when I snapped the chain, that the force not only bent the LH steel pushrod, but maybe also the LH aluminum one...and that is causing the oscillation.

So tomorrow I will peel off the left engine cover (hate this job on the SV.. all the oil and coolant out)... and look for any damage to the RH pushrod...as well as the trans bearings, of course... lift up and down on the clutch, sense for clicking in the bearings, etc. Also examine the pushrod thrust bearing.

But,... no leak today! maybe a sign that I don't need to buy a motor!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Nailed it! Bike is running leak-free for the first time in two months.

My cut & drilled retainer concept worked, cutting the retainer into two pieces and securing the pushrod seal side of it to the cases by means of a 6mm hole drilled and tapped into the case... but on the first design I added two tiny sheet metal screws.. and oil leaked past one of these.

So I got (yet another) fresh seal and this time installed it with the modded retainer, but no screws. This meant that the seal could GO IN but could not pop OUT. Previously, the seal was twisting its' way out of the bore, (my guess is that the slave cylinder piston got distorted...I replaced it with a FleaBay donor).


So after 500 miles or so all is DRY, Mutha! Wheee-HOO! I'm ridin' SV again!

NOW... if I could just eliminate that tiny steering warble.... I'd be SET
 
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