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i hate to rehash this "argument", but now i can actually have input on it after my trackday. this quote was from another thread in the east coast forum

I've come to the conclusion...the stock tires on the 2nd gen bikes are ish. This is the second incident in just over a week where the stock tire broke loose and extremely slow speeds. According to RandyO this is a common problem. http://forum.svrider.com/index.php?topic=40325.0

Spend the money...get decent rubber...stay on the road.
i just did a track day in the rain on the stocks. i had ZERO problems (other than wet grass). never felt a slip, had her leaned over in the turns, got a knee down, etc. never had a doubt in my mind about the tires. would other tires have more grip, probably. is there a problem with stockers - no, they're perfectly ridable. i'll bet that people on the same level as me on the track would not have out-ridden me just because they didn't have stock tires.

i see no reason to ditch the stocks before they need to be ditched. will i put another set of 220's on after these are done? probably not, but i'm not tossing them after 3k miles just because they're stocks.

it's not the tire that caused the crash, it's the rider.
 

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+1 I had a front stocker and a rear M1. I passed all sorts of bikes (actually, all but a couple: two R1's) in my class and my bike was/is completely stock except the rear tire. I also rode it in the rain.

Josh
 

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I was doing forks of the credit road ;D with my friend on his zx6r. I had my stock D220s on and he had Bridgestone Battlax's. He said his back tire was slipping on almost every turn - mine was just fine.
 

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my original 220s flat spotted real early and left my bike with a vague feeling in turns for most of their 10,000 miles of life. i liked getting the high mileage out of them, but i'm having better results out of metz z6 and expect to get just as many miles from these.
 

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I have kinda always felt that way too, I havent done a track day but I ride "spiritedly" on the street and have never had one problem with slipping
 

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I always felt the stock Dunlop's were a pretty decent wet tire. It's in the dry where they fail in comparison. My powers are probobly the best dry tires I've ever ridden, but not so good in the wet stuff.
 

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stranger said:
i hate to rehash this "argument", but now i can actually have input on it after my trackday. this quote was from another thread in the east coast forum

i just did a track day in the rain on the stocks. i had ZERO problems (other than wet grass). never felt a slip, had her leaned over in the turns, got a knee down, etc. never had a doubt in my mind about the tires. would other tires have more grip, probably. is there a problem with stockers - no, they're perfectly ridable. i'll bet that people on the same level as me on the track would not have out-ridden me just because they didn't have stock tires.

i see no reason to ditch the stocks before they need to be ditched. will i put another set of 220's on after these are done? probably not, but i'm not tossing them after 3k miles just because they're stocks.

it's not the tire that caused the crash, it's the rider.
I normally would agree with you but after seeing that RandyO noticed this particular problem with the stock tires I would tend to believe that it is true.  My comments are based purely on what i've seen, and as far your arguement...You are on the track where the road conditions are a bit less variable.  All incidents were at LOW speeds (I have a hard time believing that you maintained speeds under 30mph on the track).  Incidents where the tires broke loose were in wet and in dry conditions.  I know what you're saying Josh...the rider has alot to do with how a situation is handled...i'm just putting it out there for those who may feel they would have better input from a different set of tires.
 

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All of you have made valid points so far. I have been guiltier than most in bashing the D220. Again, the D220 is a fine tire, but the newer class of ST rubber offers substantially better grip while retaining at least 90% of the lifespan of the D220. The D220 is nowhere near as horrid as the MEZ4 that were stock on 1st gens.


I have to admit, though, that if I were to buy an SV shod with D220's, I would more than likely swap them out for some newer ST rubber (and this comes from one of the cheapest S.O.B.s you will meet). The difference in grip and wet performance for me is that significant...



P.S. I just turned 14+K miles on my Pilot Roads and they're still rolling. In my personal tire test, the Roads have now exceeded the mileage I got from D220's (12+K). Try as I might, I can't kill these things. The Stradas in the garage are gathering dust and losing that new tire smell... :-\
 

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How much did the pilot roads cost you? and do you run them in the wet and dry? With the rising gas prices I'm gonna switch to a pair of touring tires after this set of powers but I don't want to lose the grip.
 

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Muddturtle3-- Just off my memory, I paid $210-215 for the set delivered to my door from www.swmototires.com. Pilot Roads run about $10-20 higher than the average ST tire set according to my web shopping. I have never run Pilot Powers, so I can't directly compare the two. I will state that I have not yet felt that grip was lacking with the Roads. No track days, I try to take it easy on my equipment (no burnouts/rabbit starts/stoppies) although I do exercise my inner squid a few days a week on backroads, and I am fanatic about maintaining/modulating tire pressure. Wet grip is particularly superb, IMO. HTH...



[edit: I ride every day rain or shine (commute/fun) from April through October--MN sucks for reptilian metabolisms :-[]
 

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Thanks Stranger, MuddTurtle, SixChinSkinny et. al

You have confirmed my suspicions and until my skills improve and the suspension gets upgraded from that horrid nosedive  :mad: , I am going to hang on to the stocks until they start showing wear.  Pilot Roads are the next set and will be installed next April or May.  I am hoping to put some serious miles this fall.

I thought riding dirt in the past would prepare me for street ... nope it does not, the dynamics are totally different.  I can shift, countersteer and such but I got a lot to learn!  MSF this weekend .. Friday thru Sunday!
 

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my mottos is and always will be "why be satisfied with good enough" If there is a better tire out there you better belive I want that one. I've had the stock front tires push out on me and I've broken the rear a couple of times. Since i switched I've never had the front push and I've only recently broken the rear. less then a half inch think of kevlar can stop a bullet, but wouldn't you rather the two inch thick vest?. just my opinion.
 

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gonzo221 said:
my mottos is and always will be "why be satisfied with good enough" If there is a better tire out there you better belive I want that one. I've had the stock front tires push out on me and I've broken the rear a couple of times. Since i switched I've never had the front push and I've only recently broken the rear. less then a half inch think of kevlar can stop a bullet, but wouldn't you rather the two inch thick vest?. just my opinion.

I agree whole-heartedly with your philosophy. What tires are you rolling right now?
 

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I ride the pilot powers, have about 3 grand on them now and they have tons of meat left on them. I'm thinking I can get over 6 grand out of them and I ride "spiritedly". :p Also commute with them. awesome tires.
 

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Maybe if you weren't so gosh darn slow you'd be able to see the 220s shortcomings. j/k :D

I'm slow too, real slow, so don't take this personally! ...

I hate, hate, hated the 220s... and I never even went that fast with them. They provide little or no feedback about what the tires doing, profile is awful(especially the rear), stock front tire size is 60 profile(which doesn't provide a big enough contact patch and you get to the edge of tire way too soon), and dry grip is laughable compared to any modern sport tire.

Just because you "got away" with doing a trackday on stock tires, doesn't mean they are ideal. They are flat out dangerous for anyone who is actually pushing hard and trying to ride close to the limit of their own skills, machine, and conditions. Like I said before, I'm slow, but for me trackdays are about learning how to go faster, I would never have the confidence to do that on a sport touring tire. Maybe I could do okay with one... but eventually, those tires would let me down and it would probably cost me a lot of money and hurt really bad.
 

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gonzo-- Another Power devotee, eh? I would like to try a set to see what all the good buzz is about, but the way I ride, I really have no business rolling them. It would be interesting to be able to compare them directly against the other tires I've tried, though. Hmmmm, maybe I will convince myself to sample the madness yet....
 

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Six Chin Skinny said:
gonzo--  Another Power devotee, eh?  I would like to try a set to see what all the good buzz is about, but I the way I ride, I really have no business rolling them.  It would be interesting to be able to compare them directly against the other tires I've tried, though.   Hmmmm, maybe I will convince myself to sample the madness yet....
We've found them for $225 shipped for the F4i/600rr. It would probably be a bit cheaper for the SV.
 

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Muddturtle3 said:
We've found them for $225 shipped for the F4i/600rr.  It would probably be a bit cheaper for the SV.
In my experience browsing tires sites, I've found the 160 rears are usually $10+ more expensive. Perhaps there are more 180's out there; or, at least, more 180's being replaced.

I'd rather be wrong... AMEN ;)

Josh
 

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stranger said:
i hate to rehash this "argument", but now i can actually have input on it after my trackday. this quote was from another thread in the east coast forum

i just did a track day in the rain on the stocks. i had ZERO problems (other than wet grass). never felt a slip, had her leaned over in the turns, got a knee down, etc. never had a doubt in my mind about the tires. would other tires have more grip, probably. is there a problem with stockers - no, they're perfectly ridable. i'll bet that people on the same level as me on the track would not have out-ridden me just because they didn't have stock tires.

i see no reason to ditch the stocks before they need to be ditched. will i put another set of 220's on after these are done? probably not, but i'm not tossing them after 3k miles just because they're stocks.

it's not the tire that caused the crash, it's the rider.
please don't misquote me. the only real problem I have had with dunlops was brakeing traction, maybe I didn't have tire up to temp? I dunno, but if tha't the case they take quite a bit to warm them up, they just seem to skid the rear tire easy on downshifting compared to any other tire I have run, in all other respects, the dunlops werre fine
 

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wonderjosh said:
Just because you "got away" with doing a trackday on stock tires, doesn't mean they are ideal. They are flat out dangerous for anyone who is actually pushing hard and trying to ride close to the limit of their own skills, machine, and conditions. Like I said before, I'm slow, but for me trackdays are about learning how to go faster, I would never have the confidence to do that on a sport touring tire. Maybe I could do okay with one... but eventually, those tires would let me down and it would probably cost me a lot of money and hurt really bad.
If you are riding that hard and can't listen to your tires, you probably shouldn't be riding that hard.  I've now run through 2 full sets of BT020's and have nothing but good to say about them.  They never spooked me when really riding hard in the mountains.  Sport touring tires aren't flat out dangerous, the rider is.  If you can't feel your tires limits, you can't blame the tire.  The 020's at least speak very plainly.  When cold, they slide a bit, when old, they slide a bit.  Even at the end of their life, my tires worked respectably well.   You couldn't run right up to the limits, but if you crept up, you were fine.  I wouldn't hesitate to take the Z6's to the track.  I'm sure they are capable of knee down, and they'd be great rain insurance to boot.  
 
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