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www.spieglerusa.com

I have Galfer SS Superbike lines right now and they were $105. I just purchased a set of Goodridge for $90 from DennisKirk two weeks ago.
 

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SpeedisaVirus said:
www.spieglerusa.com

I have Galfer SS Superbike lines right now and they were $105. I just purchased a set of Goodridge for $90 from DennisKirk two weeks ago.
how do you like the super bikeline?? are they that much better then the others???
 

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the super bike lines are supposed to be better flow. CanyonChaser put a set on his sv and has had no problems, but a friend of mine had a hard time getting a set because they want you to have a race license. supposedly over time the fittings come loose, and racers are more likely to notice than John Q Public, because they work on the bike more and tend to safety wire things ;)

my next set will prolly be SS SuperBikes, but i'll remember to check em when i change tires or bleed fluid. :confused2:
 

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I was checking out the choices of brake line configs. they offerd @ wildhair and noticed there were 3 line and 4 line kits for the front brakes. Now..., how would the 4 line kit be configured? Wouldnt the 2 line works just as good if not better than a 4 line configuration? Seems redundant to be using 4 seperate lines for the front brakes. :dontknow:
 

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coyote said:
how do you like the super bikeline?? are they that much better then the others???
They are fine but I have no other SS lines to compare them to. The lines I will be putting on this weekend are standard banjo goodridge lines. I don't anticipate enough of a difference to be noticeable on the street. Maybe a racer who can appreciate the subtleties of differences between every single pad brand of the same type may notice. I will report back if you would like after I try the standard lines.
 

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solidONE said:
I was checking out the choices of brake line configs. they offerd @ wildhair and noticed there were 3 line and 4 line kits for the front brakes. Now..., how would the 4 line kit be configured? Wouldnt the 2 line works just as good if not better than a 4 line configuration? Seems redundant to be using 4 seperate lines for the front brakes. :dontknow:
I have the two line Galfer kit on mine, works great. VERY noticeable improvement in braking performance. I also replaced my pads and rotors around the same time, but I did ride on the new pads and rotors for a bit before the change, and after it will stop and almost flip end over end if I wanted... I have no idea what the 4 lines would be for, but the three line might replace the original lines and use the coupler T that was there, but I was HAPPY to remove it (going to mount my flyscreen bracket to it and run it through the middle of my dominator lights, instead of up the sides).

I say, get the 2 line one...
 

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This can sound a bit patronising, but I reckon the reason people feel a performance improvement is down to one or more of three things- new fluid, a better bleed, or damaged/worn out hoses...
 

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Northwind said:
This can sound a bit patronising, but I reckon the reason people feel a performance improvement is down to one or more of three things- new fluid, a better bleed, or damaged/worn out hoses...
Could be true..sure, but not in all cases.

I did a track day not to long after getting my bike. Stock lines were still plenty new and in good shape. Being a good little boyscout....I did change the fluid and get a good bleed before doing the track day. Braking seemed fine...brakes worked harder than I thought they would and stopped me better than I thought they would.

Then, about a month later, I upgraded to Galfer SS lines...and of course, changed fluid again, and got the same good bleed. Did another track day, same track, same bike, same conditions, and did notice a significant gain in braking power..or more realistically, less brake fade towards the end of the twenty minute sessions, as compared to the stock set up.

To me, that is a pretty apples to apples comparison...and of course, just my personal experience...but...enough to show me the value of SS lines vs stock lines.

FWIW..I then, after those two track days, also upgraded my pads to Vesrahs....and have been using that combo ever since, on both track and street bikes.
 

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DougZ said:
To me, that is a pretty apples to apples comparison...and of course, just my personal experience...but...enough to show me the value of SS lines vs stock lines.
It's a very good comparison, thanks. I'm not sure how hoses prevent fade, though, since fade is usually caused by overheating parts. Interesting to read though.

My post was more aimed at one of the popular posts in these threads, which is "I just replaced my 1999 SV's original lines with Galfer/HEL/etc and a set of (good pads of your choice) and what a difference! Braided lines are great!"
 

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Northwind said:
It's a very good comparison, thanks. I'm not sure how hoses prevent fade, though, since fade is usually caused by overheating parts. Interesting to read though.

My post was more aimed at one of the popular posts in these threads, which is "I just replaced my 1999 SV's original lines with Galfer/HEL/etc and a set of (good pads of your choice) and what a difference! Braided lines are great!"
In my theory, and it may just be mine...but from what I know of stock braking systems, is that the rubber lines tend to soften and then swell a bit, once the fluid gets hot. This is eliminated with the use of SS braided lines. Now, brake fade in the car sense, which I have also heard in the past, has to do more with outgassing from the pads, and corrected by changing pads, and/or giving those gasses somewhere to go, ie slotted rotors.

As far as your second thing..I do know exactly you are talking about. I used to work in a car parts place and people would come in to get new shocks for their cars with 100K miles on them, and then rave about what ever shocks they were sold, not realizing replacing the stock shocks sooner, even with oem, it would still feel much better.
 

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Stainless lines are great, but they will NOT:
- improve braking effectiveness
- reduce fade
- increase braking force.

Brakes will deliver exactly the same amount of braking effectiveness and braking force with stock lines as with SS lines. Brake lines have nothing to do with fade. Everything else is placebo.
 

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Northwind said:
This can sound a bit patronising, but I reckon the reason people feel a performance improvement is down to one or more of three things- new fluid, a better bleed, or damaged/worn out hoses...
Or in my case, taking the old stock front end off (with 5 year old factory rubber hoses and factory brake pads), swapping a GSXR front end on, putting in some good Motul fluid, new SS lines, and Carbone Lorraine pads. Add to that, the fact that I hadn't ridden the bike in about 6 months.

Yeah, I'm probably not a good person to ask about how much of a difference I felt between rubber and SS lines. :tard:
 

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andyauger said:
Stainless lines are great, but they will NOT:
- improve braking effectiveness
- reduce fade
- increase braking force.

Brakes will deliver exactly the same amount of braking effectiveness and braking force with stock lines as with SS lines. Brake lines have nothing to do with fade. Everything else is placebo.
So what DO they do than? Other than looking sexy.

I just purchased some Galfer SS lines from kneedraggers, I was under the impression that you would get noticably better feel/feedback from the lines, aswell as better braking force.

Rubber lines flex with the pressure, SS lines do not...not to mention the new SS lines go directly to the calipers, as opposed to one line going to a junction that than splits to the two calipers. I'm sure they has to be SOME noticable difference in braking force? :dontknow:
 

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I am not gonna argue with Andy....but you see the real world comparison results I posted above. I read Andy's replies sometimes and usually trust his knowledge, but sometimes think he is too text book and not enough real world.

I am sure there is a reason racing teams use them.
 

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Believe andy is correct in the fact that they don't do the things listed. They do allow a more direct application of the pressure from the MC by eliminating much of the expansion old OEM rubber lines can undergo under strong braking. Not really more power but you loose some of that squish in the lever. Anyway, that is what I noticed. Engineers be damned if they disagree.
 

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DougZ said:
I am not gonna argue with Andy....
Yeah foo, you'd better RECOGNIZE! :blob8:


:laughing4:


Has anybody tried the 3 line kit? How does it compair to the 2 line kits? I imagine the 3 line should be slightly better than the 2 line since there is less volume for fluid in the 3 line. Theoreticly, this should equal a more "direct" feel. Less cable, less expansion. Anybody?

Only down side to the 3-line vs 2-line is cost. About $50 bucks more for the extra fittings over the 2 line kit.
 

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SS lines with teflon internals were developed for fluid systems where you didn't want to be changing the lines out, and where failures were unacceptable. The primary reason for the design is longevity. Secondary reason is that they are very strong in tension. The braid can maintain line integrity if the line is being pulled hard, as in equipment failure.

The braid does restrict expansion under pressure so they do give a more direct feel. As I've said, try both (assuming your rubber line system has nice, clean, well bled fluid in it) and you will not notice a big difference. A difference, yes, but not a big one.

Clamping force at the caliper depends entirely on the internal hydraulic pressure. Stainless lines won't give you any more pressure than rubber lines. They will feel less "squishy" as the lever force (and so hydraulic pressure) rises since they expand less. Still, for a given lever pressure you will get a given clamping force.

I prefer the three line setup because it looks cleaner and there's less volume in the system. Is this a big deal? No, not at all. With a dual-line setup you will have less flow resistance, with a three line setup you move less fluid. I would bet serious money that no one could feel the difference.

As to the difference between books and the real world, I had already built three cars and two bikes before I returned to college after a hiatus with the fire department. When I graduated I looked for a job where I could use both my book learning and my hands-on experience. Although I always had an office, I didn't spend a lot of time there. The bulk of my working days were spent in coveralls with the machinists, mechanics, millwrights, electricians, instrument techs, etc., out in the field. I've worked onshore and offshore in a number of different environments, all definitely real world.
 

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It doesn't matter what type of brake lines you have, rubber, SS, etc. You can only stop as fast as it takes the wheel to lock up. So if the rubber lines will let your front wheel lock, then SS lines won't make it any different. It might make the feel at the lever different (maybe a bit tighter), but it won't improve braking performance, just looks.

So if you were like me, and had a 2000 model with the same brake lines it shipped with, and unknown if the fluid was changed, then yes replacing the lines and fluid might help, and will give you a better feel, and most likely better stopping power.

So if it will lock up, then you aren't going to get any better braking power, maybe better control, but that's it...
 

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mrailing said:
It doesn't matter what type of brake lines you have, rubber, SS, etc. You can only stop as fast as it takes the wheel to lock up. So if the rubber lines will let your front wheel lock, then SS lines won't make it any different. It might make the feel at the lever different (maybe a bit tighter), but it won't improve braking performance, just looks.

So if you were like me, and had a 2000 model with the same brake lines it shipped with, and unknown if the fluid was changed, then yes replacing the lines and fluid might help, and will give you a better feel, and most likely better stopping power.

So if it will lock up, then you aren't going to get any better braking power, maybe better control, but that's it...
Indeed. SS lines do not add power, and I didn't notice a better feel. What they do is last longer than OEM rubber lines (3 years of life I think) and the suffer less in high heat conditions over rubber. That's it.
 
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