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Discussion Starter #61
First Amendment issue: free speach vs. advocating violence.
This is a red-herring distinction. "Free speech" while having limits, protects really vile statements and ideas. The problem isn't that the people who have ratcheted up the rhetoric of violence have broken some law. It's that they have chosen to casually inject the language of war and violence into everyday political discourse. While that's not illegal, it's massively irresponsible.

Second Amendment
I haven't owned a gun since I was about 11 years old. (My father had given me a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 mm when I was about eight, but got rid of it after one had been used to kill JFK) And I haven't done any serious shooting (hunting and plinking) since I was about 16 years old. There's an experiential divide in this country on gun ownership rights/gun control, principally derived from the difference between the typically urban cultures where guns are used almost solely as weapons of coercion by criminals, and the more rural culture where guns are tools in the relationship between people and nature. (The recent NRA/"Cold dead fingers" hysteria is really more about political manipulation than threats to liberty. But that's an entirely different immpossible thread.)

The only Second Amendment issue raied by this event is whether there should be a better way to screen loonies from guns. But that recursively goes back to the conundrum of how crazy you have to be for a government to deprive you of a constitutional right.
[Forgive me, Datech, for editing my post while you were composing yours.]
 

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Second Amendment
I haven't owned a gun since I was about 11 years old. (My father had given me a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 mm when I was about eight, but got rid of it after one had been used to kill JFK) And I haven't done any serious shootijng (hunting and plinking) since I was about 16 years old. The only Second Amendment issue raied by this event is whether there should be a better way to screen loonies from guns. But that recursively goes back to the conundrum of how crazy you have to be for a government to deprive you of a constitutional right.
On top of that, real criminals don't really care about gun laws. He could of done this even if he lived in NYC or DC.

Edit: No worries, I wasn't being combative. Both of your posts still hold true, I was just pointing out an unfortunate truth in our society.
 

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Jim, the black text you use does not appear for those of us that use the black background theme.

:dontknow:
 

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You people who took that oath and are posting here .... do you see a problem?
I see a big problem. I'm ashamed knowing that at another time I would have called those people brothers in arms. It's internet tough, it's the not-in-my-backyard mentality, it's cowardice, it's juvenile, and it's disgusting. Get the f*ck out of my country.
 

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I see a big problem. I'm ashamed knowing that at another time I would have called those people brothers in arms. It's internet tough, it's the not-in-my-backyard mentality, it's cowardice, it's juvenile, and it's disgusting. Get the f*ck out of my country.
That is not the answer ... nor is it the solution.

The answer for all our citizens is to recognize the problem and focus on the solution.

The polarity of black versus white is the extremist's tool used to divide and conquer.

The power of choice and discourse is what built this country into what it is. The ability to see our contributions and their respective consequences and choosing to change is what makes us great.

Perfection is unrealistic while progress is attainable.

I cannot even begin to imagine what it is like to walk through a village where "collateral damage" was done as a result of a political decision implemented. I have seen the consequences in people I know and respect.

The respect came from those that chose to focus on a solution ... whether personal, societal or political. That position came from painful introspection and a lot of personal pain and commitment to change.

We all have that personal choice to make. Some choose to do so and some don't.

Don't hate the player, hate the game ... THAT is what I choose to believe is where they are coming from with their statements.
 

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I despise talk TV and radio because all they do is define and twist the problems.

How many of them actually provide and implement solutions?

They inflame passions and emotions.

A leader will focus on solutions ... not problems.
 

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I wasn't trying to offer a solution. I was calling out the people like myself that have served/are serving who know better than to have/voice those kind of opinions. There is no place for that kind of attitude in the military.
 

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She may have been a Politician, but today's NYTimes carried an article which also said "WASHINGTON — Unusual is a relative term in American political life, but Representative Gabrielle Giffords fits the bill: avid equestrian and motorcycle enthusiast, repository of arcane health care data, successful Democrat elected three times in a Republican Congressional district, French horn player and wife of an astronaut. " Also - '“We once got into a conversation about the meaning of life,” said Tom Zoellner, a friend of Ms. Giffords’s and volunteer on two of her campaigns. “And she had sort of made an existential decision that life was about helping other people, that life was about public service, and she was going to arrange her life around that idea.”' For those of you who like to rant about all Pols are evil, the motorcycling community just lost a Friend!
 

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Yeah. I forgot.:facepalm:

Still, my point was that she was a friend to motorcyclists.

As an aside, I just read a short article on the 20 year-old intern who provided her and the other wounded immediate first aid assistance. Afterwards, he admitted that running towards the shooting might not have been the smartest thing to do, but he wanted to help. A true hero overcomes his/her fear/common sense to do the right thing.
 

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Its interesting that the congresswoman wasn't even in the house of representatives when the wars were started, yet you have no problem making the connection that she deserved this because she is a politician.

I think we need to really stop beating around the bush. She is a Democrat and in some peoples eyes it is O.K. that this happened to her because of this fact.

In reality, this type of behavior is exclusively purported by people who are motivated by the insanity of the right wing.
 

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Its interesting that the congresswoman wasn't even in the house of representatives when the wars were started, yet you have no problem making the connection that she deserved this because she is a politician.

I think we need to really stop beating around the bush. She is a Democrat and in some peoples eyes it is O.K. that this happened to her because of this fact.

In reality, this type of behavior is exclusively purported by people who are motivated by the insanity of the right wing.
+1. What makes our country different is the bipartisan spirit we've operated under for the last 234 years. We look sadly at all the lesser countries were power changes only through violence. When I see Americans calling for the violent death of their political enemies, it makes me angry.
 

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And, of course, phrases like "the insanity of the right wing." are just dandy for encouraging bipartisan cooperation :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Jim, the black text you use does not appear for those of us that use the black background theme.

:dontknow:
Life sometimes does seem a series of challenges, doesn't it? :D
Sorry. I think if you highlight the text, it becomes readable.
 

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What if that particular indivudial was an illegal alien? Would you want your taxpayer dollars used to reward an illegal?
Wow, that would be a concern to you right now?
If you go that way, you might want to think more about how much the shooter is going to cost the taxpayer
and what kind of laws and restrictions we might have to deal with in the future because of his actions.
 

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whiskey tango foxtrot, seriously this place has gotten too f*ckin' out there for me, once there was a time where we can talk about anything but now all this infighting is just getting way too f*ckin' old, people don't care if they are acting like 4 year olds, they just want to be right, at any cost, f*ck this sh*t
 

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Discussion Starter #80
It's truly the Apocalypse,
:sbmfacepalm:
thejimdaddy has become the Voice of Reason. We have reached the End of Days.
 
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