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Hello All, first post here so I apologize if I am in the wrong section. I joined this forum because I need a little help that I couldn't find anywhere else. Maybe you guys can point me to the right direction... I own a 2005 DL 1000 and a couple of years ago I bought all the four SV 1000 (year 2003…) camshafts to do a swap... I understand that the rear cilinder has a cam position sensor and there is a pin in one of the camshaft (intake) that works with that. The location of the pin on the DL camshaft is different than the one of the SV camshaft, it's offset of some degrees... so I bought on eBay a used SV head cover thinking that it would have the sensor placed in a different position but I received a head cover that looks identical to the DL one. (Maybe the seller sold me a DL one instead that an SV one?). My question is, do you know if there is a way to use the Intake camshaft (the one with the pin) in a DL 1000 engine? Thanks in advance if you can help me understand the differences between the two engines.
 

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Welcome to the Forum and sorry for the late reply. Using early SV cams in the DL might not work well as there were many changes to the SV from K3-4 to K5+. Looks like the DL went from 16 to 32 bit ECU in 2004 so you have the later version which the SV changed to in 2005+ but I'm thinking the ECU's aren't compatible between models even though they share architecture. K5+ SV went to dual MAP sensors rather than the cam position sensor on the rear intake....does your DL still have this sensor? Not totally familiar with the DL's and all their changes but there is a lot more different with SV besides the cams.

In 2005 SV went to a single valve spring setup and the newer cams along with more lift/duration and phasing and even if your engine still has the rear intake pin setup the phasing could make the ECU not understand what's going on. Perhaps the DL forums would have more information on the cam swap? We share basic engine design but the SV has stronger rods, higher compression, bigger throttle bodies, and other internal changes that might make a cam swap ill advised even if it's possible.

The biggest issue with the DL from what I've read is the STV's shut off the fun at higher revs so it's not running out of cam when it lays down at high rpm. The fellows at Factory Pro have worked with the DL and gotten huge power improvements by removing the STV's (which we also remove....not needed and can only reduce power)...see:http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prodsdl1000.html It might very well be possible to swap in SV cams....but I'd save that for after picking all the 'low hanging fruit' that's holding back the stock engine. Best of luck! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for you reply. In the meanwhile after thinking about this for a while, I swapped the camshafts and am in the process of finishing the job. The rear intake SV camshaft has a pin that provides information about the position of the cam and it was not located in the same position of the DL camshaft. So I took that one out, drilled a hole in the correct position (well... in the same location of the DL one), closed the original hole and put the pin almost precisely where it should be. In theory that might work... In practice I will soon discover... I knew about removing secondary throttle valves but mines seem really tight to unscrew and I would not want to damage that section of the intake, are those loctited in?
 

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Often times the STV's are Loctited in....if you have a soldering iron a few seconds heating the center of the + will soften it and allow easier removal. Remember those screws are JIS heads so use the screwdriver supplied in the toolkit or another proper JIS driver and not a Phillips so you can get a firm hold to remove them.

Have you checked the valve clearances? Was wondering if the cam lobes were taller to get the increased lift or the base circle smaller? Not sure. Would be good to check for retainer to valve seal clearance too as I'm not sure how much room you have to increase the lift before making contact. Have others on the DL forums done this swap with success? I might be being overly cautious but when things go wrong in this area they do cause serious problems so it's best to either be following someone else who has done it or check everything carefully. Are you degreeing the cams? Checking for piston/valve clearance? I have my cams at 106/109 and was limited by piston clearance to go any tighter.

The intake pin location shouldn't be super critical as long as it's close to where the ECU is expecting it to be so it knows what phase the engine is in....but cam timing IS critical and are you sure the timing marks on the SV cams are the same as the DL? I've never degreed a K3-4 SV but the K5+ have 111'ish centerlines on both intake and exhaust. Just dropping in the cams without knowing exactly where the valve events are happening might not work out as planned.

Could I ask what you're expecting from this swap? The SV's don't like being loaded below 3000 rpm so you're going to lose some tractability if you do any offroad riding assuming the cam timing is where it normally is/was on the SV. You do have a service manual to go by...yes? The rear jug clearance and timing get people in trouble all the time as it's not intuitive how they did it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Often times the STV's are Loctited in....if you have a soldering iron a few seconds heating the center of the + will soften it and allow easier removal. Remember those screws are JIS heads so use the screwdriver supplied in the toolkit or another proper JIS driver and not a Phillips so you can get a firm hold to remove them.

Have you checked the valve clearances? Was wondering if the cam lobes were taller to get the increased lift or the base circle smaller? Not sure. Would be good to check for retainer to valve seal clearance too as I'm not sure how much room you have to increase the lift before making contact. Have others on the DL forums done this swap with success? I might be being overly cautious but when things go wrong in this area they do cause serious problems so it's best to either be following someone else who has done it or check everything carefully. Are you degreeing the cams? Checking for piston/valve clearance? I have my cams at 106/109 and was limited by piston clearance to go any tighter.

The intake pin location shouldn't be super critical as long as it's close to where the ECU is expecting it to be so it knows what phase the engine is in....but cam timing IS critical and are you sure the timing marks on the SV cams are the same as the DL? I've never degreed a K3-4 SV but the K5+ have 111'ish centerlines on both intake and exhaust. Just dropping in the cams without knowing exactly where the valve events are happening might not work out as planned.

Could I ask what you're expecting from this swap? The SV's don't like being loaded below 3000 rpm so you're going to lose some tractability if you do any offroad riding assuming the cam timing is where it normally is/was on the SV. You do have a service manual to go by...yes? The rear jug clearance and timing get people in trouble all the time as it's not intuitive how they did it.

That's a lot of doubts arising in my head now... I know people who did the swap on later v-Stroms models (2014 and after) and they reported of a much better driving experience, with smoother engine and higher revs... (but their engine and ecu is different from mine and the swap is "plug and play") the way it is now I find the Strom usable only between 4000 rpm to 6000 rpm but it does not like to get pushed past that (you can but still not much happens), for driving just on road, which is what I do, the engine has too much low down grunt and too much engine brake, so I would hope into a smoother, more powerful (maybe) and more manageable power delivery. Another reason why I did it is because I enjoy doing mechanical works on my bike so I like to waste hours experimenting on my engines... Anyway I started the engine today and it went without any issue, (and I still have to calibrate the TPS which btw I also replaced in this occasion) then I took it for a spin... after a short while the red FI light came up (don't know why but it's not the O2 sensor for sure because that one is disconnected and its relative error light), but still the bike runs ok, only thing I had a few loud decel pops which probably mean I need to get a new power commander map to go with the new camshafts... and the feeling was of not much of a power gain, it actually feels less powerful than before. I measured the camshafts and the difference is big, if I am not mistaken it was around 1.2 mm higher for exhaust and 1.8 for the intake... could you tell me what you mean by degreeing the cams? I have simply left the markings aligned as per manual instructions as if I was using the old camshafts... I will try and see if this can work, if not i'll revert to the stock camshafts...
 

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Degreeing the cams is a process where you mount a degree wheel on the crankshaft and a dial indicator on a cam bucket (each cam in sequence) watching the valve moving and recording where the maximum lift happens (nose of the lobe) corresponding to the crankshaft position. You also can measure the total lift, beginning and end of each cam lift event to plot the duration but the easiest method is to just go by the max lift point to make sure it happens at the correct time.

Many high performance automobile cams are ground on 110 degree centers and with both intake and exhaust lobes ground on the same camshaft you have to change to another different one to alter their relationship. Dual Overhead Cams allow us to independently adjust each cam timing event relative to the other one and this has massive influence on how the engine runs. What worries me about changing to the SV cams is the timing marks may not be exactly the same as DL, and even if they are the hotter cams kill bottom end power while the DL needs mods to allow it to rev higher where the hotter cams can offer an advantage. Sounds like you've experienced this. :)

Did you get the STV's removed? That'll free up a bunch of power at higher revs but you'll still have the low rpm deficit due to the bigger cams. Would be good to put the bike in Dealer Mode to see what the code for the FI light is...might be important. Good on you for wanting to tinker with the bike! Even if things don't go as planned you will always gain experience with experiments and this will serve you well in the future. :)
 

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Forgot to mention that if the engine feels down on power you might be having a fuel starvation issue. The SV is terrible in this area and I think the DL suffers the same malady where the fuel filter is just a tiny little thing and easily clogged. The guys on the DL forum came up with the external filter mod years ago to literally get around the stock filter and install a 10x bigger external filter where it's easy to service and much, much more resistant to clogging.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the explanation about degreeing the cams, that seems an interesting topic. I put the bike in dealer mode today and waited for the error code to show up, it happens it was a C28, so something was wrong with the secondary valves... I took the airbox out and rechecked connections and wires... I suppose something was interfering with the leverage but when I put everything back the error was gone and all was good after that. Maybe the secondary valves were not opening due to something blocking them and that might explain also poor performance. I also removed the power commander since I had a custom map made on a dyno and that was a lot leaner than stock at medium and high revs... So reverting to stock fueling cured the decel popping. I still have the stp valves on though (in the to-do list), and also just finished adjusting the TPS an hour ago as I could see driving around in dealer mode that it was really off...btw I did the fuel filter bypass a few years ago and have an external fuel filter... (I also experienced the flywheel magnets coming loose last year but I glued them back in place 😄). I still have a few things to fix and experiment but the bike feels a lot smoother even at low revs and I like the fact that I can drive in the bends without experiencing that heavy load transfer I experienced before. Maybe the feeling is that some of the v- strom strong character has disappeared but I believe the outlook is positive...
 

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Update: all is good, dyno says 106 bhp at the wheel. Can't really complain about power... It was 93 before. Massive improvement in engine smoothness and also handling has improved. Torque curve is almost identical up to 6.500 rpm but then I gain 10% after that point in comparisons to what it was before.
 
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