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Exactly what the title says. We get a lot of the same question when it comes to electrical diagnostics and whether a battery or R/R is out. In this thread I am going to compile D'Ecross' R/R post, the MOSFET post, the "pic Heavy R/R" post and a few other tidbits in order to have one massive compilation I (or anyone else) can quote or send people too when the charging system and low voltage questions come up.

Thanks! :eek:ccasion14:
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

So... Your battery is dead and your bike keeps dying. I'm sorry for you :'( This thread will take you through the diagnostics of figuring out what is (likely) causing your electrical woes and addressing them in turn. If you have been sent to this thread by one of our kindly senior (as in old) SVR members, congrats. You can skip to the section that pertains to you and act accordingly. Also, some of these have been organized in such a way that they can be quoted onto other threads. If this is the case for you, it may be useful for you to go through this thread to refresh or see where things are going wrong.

Welcome to SVRider
(where the points don't matter and we're all secretely a computer talking to itself)
:eek:ccasion14:



FIRST THINGS FIRST: YOU NEED A MULTIMETER

If you want to figure out what is going on with your bike (or really with anything electrical), you need this tool: HF Multimeter



You will not get anywhere quickly without one.

They are usually 6.00$-12.00$ at pretty much any store... As such GET ONE!!!

Bonus: You can now test your home's wiring, whether a light/plug/whatever on your bike is getting any power, if your battery is dead or dying and even bring your dog back after that accident! (OK well maybe not that one).

The point is, you need one. Its cheap. Get it. End of story.




How to use the multimeter

Step 1: Turn on.
Step 2: Poke things.

Maybe its not that simple but its close. HERE are TWO good tutorials on how multimeters work, and the way we will be using them are even easier. Skim through those, watch the video below and then lets begin. :)


 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

START HERE: IS MY BATTERY CHARGED?

Thank you to all for advice given over the years that always starts with this question.

This post explains that the 'power level' (IE voltage) of the bike is dependent upon a working battery that is fully charged and what the power level means for the bike.


To test this, take the multimeter set to DC-V (Direct current voltage) and on the 20 numerical setting touch each of the battery posts with each of the multimeter probes. You are testing how much 'power' is 'resting' in the battery at any given time or in certain conditions. Ideally the voltage across the bike will match directly at the battery posts. Unfortunately, because of connections and length/gauge of wire this is not always the case (hence the need for the direct-to-battery-mod we will get to in a minute). Testing directly at the battery posts lets us know at the base level how much voltage is in the system.

The bare minimums on a healthy bike will read as follows:

Off no lights: Above 13.50V
Off lights on for 30 sec: Above 12.95V
Off lights on for 3 mins: Above 12.65V
On Low Beam: 13.50V - 15.00V (often 14.50V on a healthy system)
On High Beam: 13.50V - 15.00V (often 14.25V on a healthy system)
On High Beam Rev-5000RPMs: 13.50V - 15.00V (often 14.50V on a healthy system)

Most often the bike reads lower than this... before doing anything else you have to get the battery fully charged and make sure it isn't faulty. The battery has to be charged FULLY by some form of charging system (they aren't expensive and you need one anyways) BEFORE you can know if its the battery or the R/R or stator.

1) Chargers aren't expensive
2) You need one for the off-season anyways
3) They can make your battery last longer than a year and are significantly cheaper in the long run.

JUST BUY A CHARGER. THEN YOU CAN CONTINUE TO DIAGNOSE.

Here are some useful links:

Reccomended: Revzilla Tenders 30$-60$
Amazon 27$
Amazon Plus Unit 50$
AutoZone 35$+





IS MY BATTERY DEFECTIVE?

Once the battery is fully charged, if you continue to have voltage issues (within an hour or two of taking the battery off the charger) it is likely the battery. You may still need to do some work to the electrical system (namely the direct to battery mod) but you cannot continue with a defective battery. It will only frustrate you and confuse your results making you spend more money fixing things that aren't broken.

Process to know for sure:
1 ) Buy or use a float-style-charger (like a battery tender) and fill the battery overnight
2 ) Take the battery off the charger once it is confirmed fully charged
3 ) Wait five minutes, then test the voltage with a multimeter and record... Wait an hour or so (without turning on the bike or doing anything)
4 ) Test the voltage again. If you had a drop over 1.25V (As in from 14.75 to 12.75) then your battery is no good
5 ) If the voltage seems ok without doing anything, turn on the lights (but not the bike). Test with multimeter. How quickly/far did it drop?
6 ) Test again after three minutes and compare with a healthy bike (above)
7 ) Now start the bike. Test again and compare with healthy bike (above)
8 ) Hi-Beams and compare with healthy bike (above)
9 ) Turn off bike. If you made it this far, chances are the battery is fine and the charging system is faulty. This is not that common because bad charging systems combined with low charges OFTEN result in ruined batteries. They like a full and healthy charge.

If your battery failed, replace with a new battery or a known good battery from another bike.

Either way, once you have a known good battery (through replacement, testing or swapping), you may continue to testing the R/R and the stator.

While you are at it, check out the The On-Going Comprehensive Known Issues List for 1stGen(99-02) SV650 for other issues you may want to get ahead of! If you are a second gen, see the FAQ's for stuff that you may be interested in.
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

IS IT MY R/R OR MY STATOR?

Source Thread: HERE among other inputs

Thank you D'Ecosse for advice given in that thread (and over the years).

This post explains that, with a bike that runs, how to know you will or will not wind up in the same position again -> IE, dead bike and possibly ruined battery.

Basically you are checking to see if the interior components of the R/R or stator have failed. This is necessary for the R/R since it is non-serviceable (you can't see inside of it) and it prevents you from having to open up the crankcase to visually inspect the stator.



NOTE: IF YOU HAVE REACHED THIS POINT, DO TEST 3: R/R DIODE TEST FIRST
If you confirm that the R/R is bad, there is a chance that the stator is bad. Some find it comforting to find the problem first then confirm everything else is in good working order.


TEST 1: GENERATOR COIL RESISTANCE

You are testing to see if one of the stator 'sections' (IE terminals) has significantly less resistance (failed by melting to ground or each other) or has infinite resistance (broken wire / connection). A significant failure in either direction means you need a new stator. You are using Ohms Ω on the multimeter in the 200 numerical setting.

Follow the test, access the stator wires and cross test between the terminals. Compare to a range of 0.20Ω~0.55Ω. If you are near this (IE 0.15Ω to 0.65Ω), you may be able to get away with using the same stator, just be aware that it may go out in the future, taking your new R/R with it. If you are where most people are (around 0.90Ω) then you need a new stator.


(NOTE: THESE PICS ARE FOR VISUAL ONLY <YOU DO NOT HAVE TO OPEN THE CRANKCASE TO RUN THIS TEST>)
FYI: A high failure looks like this when you open up the crankcase but don't jump the gun, run all three tests BEFORE deciding which components to replace.

Otherwise known as melted to ****. :) Congrats, you get to learn more about your bike :eek:ccasion14:

This is what a good one looks like:



TEST 2: GENERATOR NO-LOAD PERFORMANCE

You are testing to see if the stator is producing electricity at all (or enough electricity to support the bike). A failure of this test means your stator is bad- end of story. The stator has to produce enough electricity to run the bike or it will kill every R/R and battery you ever put in it. Please Note: YOU HAVE TO DISCONNECT THE R/R FROM THE STATOR TO RUN THIS TEST. For this, you are going to be using the multimeter in Voltage AC-V on the 200 setting.

Since the R/R is disconnected, you should have three yellow wires coming in to a connection that is exposed. Use the connection to put the probes of the multimeter. Like this:


Then rev the bike up to 5000RPM to see what numbers you get. Hope they are over 70 (most people wind up around 85V-90V)



TEST 3: R/R DIODE TEST

Please note: This test isn't perfect. If your bike produces the volts you want (and need baby!) with everything connected and the motor over 3000-5000RPMs, then consider your R/R good... But this test is still useful.

Firstly: If you have the stock unit on a first gen- just replace it and do the battery mod. It isn't that expensive and better than getting stuck somewhere.

You are going to cross-test between several of the wires on the R/R looking for specific values. You will be in the multimeter's DC Voltage, DC-V number 20. Follow the test in the above manual snapshot. (Sorry no pics on this one).



__________________________________________

MY R/R or STATOR IS BAD, WHAT NOW?

If you know the R/R or stator is bad, you get to replace them. You will want to use a MOSFET R/R and do the direct to battery mod to replace the R/R. You will want to follow the manual to replace the stator, but don't worry, its not very hard or complex.

No matter what, if you have had electrical issues (or even if you haven't but you have a first gen and like keeping your money) you want to do the direct-to-battery mod in post six below. IT WILL SAVE YOUR BATTERY AND KEEP YOU FROM GETTING STRANDED.

Once you've realized that collectively the people on this forum who have endorsed the direct-to-battery-mod have over two centuries of bike experience, you will agree and do it. :)
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

WHY A MOSFET

Source Thread: HERE

Thank you ziptech800 for most of the write up, I added a few more recent things.

This post is defining the difference between SCR and MOSFET types. The long and short of it, just get a MOSFET.

ziptech's legend:

My old stock, and new '02 GSX-R1000 SCR-type R/Rs, when hooked up to the stock output connectors in the wiring harness, got shockingly hot -- I didn't shoot it with a laser pyrometer (should get one), but both got so hot after only five or so seconds, that I couldn't keep my fingers pressed to them. The GSX-R one, when modded to use the harness, got so hot on a typical commute (12 miles at highway speeds), that I could feel its heat radiating, just putting my hand on the tail section plastic.

Once I did the 12ga direct wiring mod, though... output measured at the terminals became both more consistent and higher-output, plus... the R/R body barely registers any warmth on the fingertips. The video says it all.

Here is D'Ecosse's comprehensive post on another forum for the wiring and R/R mods...

You may not *need* a MOSFET (Metal-Oxide Semiconductor Field-Effect-Transistor) R/R, if you spend the $5 - $6 and 45 mins to do this mod. But if you want a reliability upgrade, or your R/R just $hit the bed, do yourself a favor and get a FET R/R (the 50A FH012AA, or the 40A FH010BA*, what I got.

Then get Eastern Beaver's direct-to-battery wiring adapter kit for the FHs, very high-quality for the price, and bolt-on as well.

They're the same price or only a bit more to get a superior FET R/R vs. a Suzuki or early Honda SCR R/R. Why even consider anything else... any questions on the vid or of me, shoot.

* OEM, '06 Kawasaki ZX-10R.

The MOSFET unit will run cooler, last longer and is intended for heavier usage than either First or Second gens require. As such, it is strongly advised.

I am not affiliated with the seller, but this ebay listing has worked well for me.
If this link ever dies, it was pointing towards a new replacement for Honda CBR1000RR 2004-2005 and the unit I received was bench test confirmed as a MOSFET.

__________________________________________

HOW TO TEST FOR MOSFET TYPE
(OPTIONAL)


Bench Test Source Thread: HERE

You can get a MOSFET by buying them specifically...

1) The **best** way is to get confirmation from the manufacturer.
2) The second best is to bench test it and check that readings don't display a shunt type, but this requires having it on hand which is not an option when buying the part as a replacement.
3) The third best is to use a marked unit that includes a MOSFET model number (like FH008__ or FH010__)
4) The forth best is to use an aftermarket part (new) that is intended for a MOSFET bike, such as the CBR600/1000 from 2004 onward.

You can search Amazon with this string to find the specific model and parts:
Search Terms for Amazon: CBR* ("Regulator", "Rectifier") ("05", "06", "07", "08", "09", "2005", "2006", "2007", "2008", "2009")

Pretty much any of these methods work. I bought based on original bike make and model (2006 Honda CBR600RR) and then bench tested it. If you have a specific listing/item in mind, you could post it up to see what opinions are thrown out there but really the best option is to go the route that (literally) hundreds have followed and use the FH008 (CBR600 years 2004-2008 I believe).

Just note that without doing the direct to battery mod, nothing is guaranteed. All of this is because by the stock harness being high gauge (for the load) and having 2 (!!!) crappy connections between the R/R and the battery. Combine that with a shunt-type R/R and its a recipe for failure. You must do the direct-to-battery mod.

Please Note: If you run the bench test, you are only testing the PASS/FAIL of the SCR type unit. If it fails the test, it is likely you have a MOSFET unit on your hands. The test DOES NOT determine whether the unit is functional and actively regulates voltage as desired. The BEST KNOWN WAY to test whether the unit is "good" or not is to put the unit on your bike and run the R/R tests defined above. The MOSFET/SCR tests are really just for electrical nerds--- You know who you are TeeRiver.
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

HOW TO REPLACE YOUR R/R AND DO THE DIRECT TO BATTERY MOD

Source Thread: HERE

Thank you xtremewlr for the extremely nice write up.


The original thread can be found HERE and all credit for the following goes to D'Ecosse for the great information and ziptech800 for starting the original thread.

The bike this was done on is my daily commuter bike, a 2001 SV650S with 27449 miles on it. The charging system has been working just fine on this bike (battery was replaced about 6 months ago) and this mod was done purely as a preventative measure to the common failure of the factory RR.

Heres what we are doing:


So on with the pics!

The stock Rectifier/Regulator and wiring as it was installed from the factory.


This is the area where all the work will be done. To be installed: new RR with new wiring running from it to the battery and a couple new connections.


At the very least, you need to pull the rear cowling off the bike to do the RR swap/mod. I ended up pulling the tank off too, mostly to give me extra room to work and make taking all these pics easier!


Note the yellow wires from the RR, these run to the stator and actually have an extension harness plugged into them, providing a possible point of failure in the wiring/charging system. This mod will eliminate that.


Factory RR on the left, replacement RR on the right. The wires on the new RR are noticeably longer which is a good thing as it means less new wiring to run.


Stock RR on top of the new RR to show the physical size difference between them. Bolt holes are identical, no modification needed.


The stock RR on top. The new RR is the FH008BA from a 2006 Honda CBR600.


Stock RR with the factory extension harness installed.


Factory extension harness. This is removed and can be discarded.


The old output harness is the white plug with the red and black wires coming from it. This will not be reused for this mod.


Note that the old output harness is LIVE with power from the battery still. These wires could possibly be used for a power outlet mod in the future.


To prevent anything shorting on these connections, I stuck the female ends of shielded spade connectors on the male ends of the plug spades.


The old output harness is then taped up with electrical tape, safely out of the way.


All of the parts that are needed to do this mod.
-1 3 conductor Metri-pack 280 connector for 12ga wire
-1 2 conductor Metri-pack 280 connector for 12ga wire
-1 Metri-pack 280 ATM fuse holder for 12ga wire
-30A ATM fuses (1 required, rest are spares)
-12ga wire in red and black, you will need about 4' of red and 2' of black
-Ring connectors for 12ga wire, 2 needed
-Shrink tube
-FH008 Regulator/Rectifier (2006 Honda CBR 600/1000 or similar)
-Basic wiring diagram of what you are doing (Thanks D'Ecosse!!)


30A ATM fuses. These are the little itty-bitty ones.


Found these at Autozone. The sheath is shrink tubing with glue in it. Great stuff.


Metri-pack 280 connectors and fuse holder. These make the install very clean and professional.


New RR installed. Longer bolts were required and I used lock washers under them.


These plugs will be removed and replaced with the Metri-pack 280 plugs.


RR side Stator connection. I was able to remove the plastic plug by popping the plastic tabe out (sticking up from the plug) and using a small screw driver to pop the wires out.


Cut the stock spade connectors off, then you just need to strip 1/4 from each wire for the new plug connectors.


New plug connectors for the Metri-pack plug soldered and ready to install the plug housing. The blue pieces are silicone dust boots for the new Metri-pack plug.


Plug completed.


Pulling the wires from the original stator side plug.


Soldered and ready to install the plug housing.


Stator side completed with new female 3 wire Metri-pack plug.


New stator connection completed. With the extra length of the wires from the new RR, the original extension harness has been eliminated.


These are the output wires from the new RR. Need to make these 4 wires into 2 wires. I had already cut some of the wire sheathing away when I remebered to take the pic.


Soldered and ready for shrink tubing.


Shrink tube on, ready to add the new plug.


New 2 wire Metri-Pack plug from the RR output harness done.


Found a good spot for the new fuse holder and riveted it in place.


YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED THE FUSE

Fuse and battery connection portion of the new output harness ready to be installed. I missed taking pics of preparing the wire running to the negative side of the battery but you can see the ring terminal installed on the positive side here. The same was done for the negative lead.


30A ATM fuse.


Final connections made to the battery from the fuse holder. At this point, the install is done and all you need to do is verify everything is working properly and button things back up.


Everything tucked nicely away with only the fuse holder showing.


New RR fits perfectly, doesn't show at all.


So thats it. Overall a fairly easy installation thanks to all the write ups that have already been done. So what were my results after all this work?

Ignition off - 13.17v - not significant as I fired the bike up after finishing to make sure I didn't screw up.
Ignition on, not running, lights on (high beams actually) - 12.20v
Bike running @ idle, high beams on, checked up to 3k rpms - 14.63v @ idle, increasing to 14.75v as the bike was revved. This stayed constant regardless of rpm above idle.


Hope some of you find this handy.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

KEYWORDS LIST

When searching in google, if you use site:svrider.com, it
will only throw up results from that URL. As such, here
are keywords to find this thread again via google.

How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad
R/R
Stator
FH008
Battery
Voltage
Voltage Fix
Charging
Charging system
SV650 Charging
Regulator/Rectifier
Generator

R/R
R/R
R/R

After this point, anybody feel free to throw in data / thread links / common question or whatever and I will get it built in.

:)
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

PTR - mind if I move this to FAQs? Opinions/thoughts?

Maybe replacing this stickied thread in the electrical section... http://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55191
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

I'll wait a little while, and let it get visibility, then as that wans and it falls off the front page, I'll move it over and sticky it. How's that sound?
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

Sounds good.
 

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Re: PriestTheRunner's "How do I know my battery/regulator/stator is bad" Thread

Done! Except for any common questions that people may post up.
 
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