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Discussion Starter #1
Wait! That really happened? It wasn't just something brought on by my election night drinking??





Love him.

HATE Him.

Who else has this feeling?

 

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I shared this today, because I'm both skeptical of the incoming administration and embarrassed by many people whose views I generally share:

To my Progressive Colleagues:
Stop the "Not My President" ****. Donald Trump is President of the United States (or will be momentarily.) Yes, he's an apparently undisciplined ongoing Twitter-tantrum, but he won. And the overwhelming majority of people who voted for him did so for good reasons, not because they are racist-neo alt-righters, but because they believed that the status quo had failed them. If the Usual Suspects (in both parties) of the political ecosystem had been doing a better job, the campaign of somebody like Trump would have remained a joke until the joke got too old. But he won. Let us hope that with their paw-prints all over the government, the Republicans will realize they now have to actually solve the problems they've been blocking solutions for over the past six years. Let's hope that the people entrusted with making our government work are competent enough and conscientious enough to do the best they can for America. Help them when you can. Point out their errors when you must. Remember that we are all in this enterprise of America together, even if we are sometimes uncomfortable with the "together" part.
To my Conservative Friends:
You won. You've had your two months of lording it over us "losers." We have endured your "snowflake" derision. But as of today, we go back to being Americans, each with the same stake in moving our society forward toward more peace, prosperity, and justice. The election is over and you can stop hating the Actual Majority of people who thought Trump wasn't the better choice. A Very Large minority of you, in key states, have chosen to put an ******* and bull**** artist into the highest office in the land. And hey! Some of my closest friends are either *******s or bull**** artists, so I actually understand his cocky appeal. I just never pictured any of them in the Oval Office. Hold his feet to the fires he lit. Replace Obamacare with something better that doesn't deprive the least of us of the dignity of healthcare. Demand he explain how he can bring back American manufacturing jobs without starting trade wars with every other developed economy. Make sure his tax and economic development programs actually help Americans in general prosper, and are not just get-richer-quicker schemes for the already wealthy. Don't be deluded into thinking your countrymen are your enemies. We're not.
Curiously, Facebook didn't edit "Sh1t," bullsh1t artist" or "assh*le."
 

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Premium Member
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I shared this today, because I'm both skeptical of the incoming administration and embarrassed by many people whose views I generally share:

To my Progressive Colleagues:
Stop the "Not My President" ****. Donald Trump is President of the United States (or will be momentarily.) Yes, he's an apparently undisciplined ongoing Twitter-tantrum, but he won. And the overwhelming majority of people who voted for him did so for good reasons, not because they are racist-neo alt-righters, but because they believed that the status quo had failed them. If the Usual Suspects (in both parties) of the political ecosystem had been doing a better job, the campaign of somebody like Trump would have remained a joke until the joke got too old. But he won. Let us hope that with their paw-prints all over the government, the Republicans will realize they now have to actually solve the problems they've been blocking solutions for over the past six years. Let's hope that the people entrusted with making our government work are competent enough and conscientious enough to do the best they can for America. Help them when you can. Point out their errors when you must. Remember that we are all in this enterprise of America together, even if we are sometimes uncomfortable with the "together" part.
To my Conservative Friends:
You won. You've had your two months of lording it over us "losers." We have endured your "snowflake" derision. But as of today, we go back to being Americans, each with the same stake in moving our society forward toward more peace, prosperity, and justice. The election is over and you can stop hating the Actual Majority of people who thought Trump wasn't the better choice. A Very Large minority of you, in key states, have chosen to put an ******* and bull**** artist into the highest office in the land. And hey! Some of my closest friends are either *******s or bull**** artists, so I actually understand his cocky appeal. I just never pictured any of them in the Oval Office. Hold his feet to the fires he lit. Replace Obamacare with something better that doesn't deprive the least of us of the dignity of healthcare. Demand he explain how he can bring back American manufacturing jobs without starting trade wars with every other developed economy. Make sure his tax and economic development programs actually help Americans in general prosper, and are not just get-richer-quicker schemes for the already wealthy. Don't be deluded into thinking your countrymen are your enemies. We're not.
Curiously, Facebook didn't edit "Sh1t," bullsh1t artist" or "assh*le."
First, well said.


I would say the last part goes both ways.

The other side isn't your enemy nor is wrong. They just want different things. We need to stop our "May way only" intolerant view on things and start working as a team for the betterment of all. Yes, I believe we will need to push President Trump to this. The harder battle might be getting ourselves to accept this.
 

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First, well said.
I would say the last part goes both ways.
The other side isn't your enemy nor is wrong. They just want different things.
I have thought for a long time that the things which divide us politically are often related to what we fear. "Fairness" Liberals fear that people with little opportunity and low incomes will unfairly be excluded from the things which support human dignity. Conservatives fear that people who, through talent and effort achieve financial success, will be "unfairly" over-taxed to support the dead-weight among our citizenry. Guns: People (often city-dwellers) who see guns as tools of violence fear predation. Gun owners (often rural and having grown up in gun-owning families) fear that their rights will be taken away when they've done nothing wrong. All of those points-of-view are subjectively reasonable, even if somewhat irreconcilable. You can probably use this rubric to diagram out almost every policy debate.
Social media have made it very easy to express differences of opinion in the cruellest and least respectful terms. And some folks must be baking good money doing this, because there's an unending supply of derisive memes and "new" of questionable veracity. As long as political debate is more satisfying as a blood-sport online than it is in thoughtful discussion, we're gonna remain screwed.
 

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I have thought for a long time that the things which divide us politically are often related to what we fear. "Fairness" Liberals fear that people with little opportunity and low incomes will unfairly be excluded from the things which support human dignity. Conservatives fear that people who, through talent and effort achieve financial success, will be "unfairly" over-taxed to support the dead-weight among our citizenry. Guns: People (often city-dwellers) who see guns as tools of violence fear predation. Gun owners (often rural and having grown up in gun-owning families) fear that their rights will be taken away when they've done nothing wrong. All of those points-of-view are subjectively reasonable, even if somewhat irreconcilable. You can probably use this rubric to diagram out almost every policy debate.
Social media have made it very easy to express differences of opinion in the cruellest and least respectful terms. And some folks must be baking good money doing this, because there's an unending supply of derisive memes and "new" of questionable veracity. As long as political debate is more satisfying as a blood-sport online than it is in thoughtful discussion, we're gonna remain screwed.
Social Media and the internet as also made it easier to hide with in like minded groups. Which I feel also plays its part because we are no longer force to confront views of the other side. This makes it harder for us to see that fear of the others and also be willing to address it.
 

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Social Media and the internet as also made it easier to hide with in like minded groups. Which I feel also plays its part because we are no longer force to confront views of the other side. This makes it harder for us to see that fear of the others and also be willing to address it.
+ Avogadro's Number.

Which is actually one of the most important reasons I come to the Open Forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Didn't want people to go all "Should We Have Guns?" on this.

It's just President TRUMP?

How did THAT happen? (really, how did it??)

If you think you know, please write down the path he took to get there, so others can follow it......
 

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Didn't want people to go all "Should We Have Guns?" on this.

It's just President TRUMP?

How did THAT happen? (really, how did it??)

If you think you know, please write down the path he took to get there, so others can follow it......
A divided America and a push for the "My Way Only" mentality. We are seeing Oor nation dividing and our elective representatives are at the very least unwilling to stop it and mend it. We have had the last 8 years seen a major escalation of this from both sides. Clinton thought she had enough votes to her that she could just pandor to her side and continue to ignore the other. Trump pandered to the ignored side at the right locations and was able to win.

This is basically what happened.
 

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I shared this today, because I'm both skeptical of the incoming administration and embarrassed by many people whose views I generally share:

To my Progressive Colleagues:
Stop the "Not My President" ****. Donald Trump is President of the United States (or will be momentarily.) Yes, he's an apparently undisciplined ongoing Twitter-tantrum, but he won. And the overwhelming majority of people who voted for him did so for good reasons, not because they are racist-neo alt-righters, but because they believed that the status quo had failed them. If the Usual Suspects (in both parties) of the political ecosystem had been doing a better job, the campaign of somebody like Trump would have remained a joke until the joke got too old. But he won. Let us hope that with their paw-prints all over the government, the Republicans will realize they now have to actually solve the problems they've been blocking solutions for over the past six years. Let's hope that the people entrusted with making our government work are competent enough and conscientious enough to do the best they can for America. Help them when you can. Point out their errors when you must. Remember that we are all in this enterprise of America together, even if we are sometimes uncomfortable with the "together" part.
To my Conservative Friends:
You won. You've had your two months of lording it over us "losers." We have endured your "snowflake" derision. But as of today, we go back to being Americans, each with the same stake in moving our society forward toward more peace, prosperity, and justice. The election is over and you can stop hating the Actual Majority of people who thought Trump wasn't the better choice. A Very Large minority of you, in key states, have chosen to put an ******* and bull**** artist into the highest office in the land. And hey! Some of my closest friends are either *******s or bull**** artists, so I actually understand his cocky appeal. I just never pictured any of them in the Oval Office. Hold his feet to the fires he lit. Replace Obamacare with something better that doesn't deprive the least of us of the dignity of healthcare. Demand he explain how he can bring back American manufacturing jobs without starting trade wars with every other developed economy. Make sure his tax and economic development programs actually help Americans in general prosper, and are not just get-richer-quicker schemes for the already wealthy. Don't be deluded into thinking your countrymen are your enemies. We're not.
Curiously, Facebook didn't edit "Sh1t," bullsh1t artist" or "assh*le."

I find this response fascinating. In one breath you tell your kindred spirits to get over it... in the next you warn the other side that you're not going to and that they shouldn't act act as though they won.

First, I would probably agree that people who claim to be conservatives probably shouldn't gloat too much because, frankly, conservativism didnt win.

Anti-establishment populism won.

And, I'm not, in the least, surprised that people like you... who once came on here and advocated large portions of what Trump ran and won on, now demand that he explain how it all works when you didn't demand it of the Democrats for years.

Just like Sanders is a socialist who attempted to win the Democrat nomination, Trump is a populist who did win the Republican nomination, and, subsequently, the election, because people are tired of the establishments of both sides.

Right now, the establishment that is having a very difficult time accepting that they are no longer relevant is media.

Me, personally? I'm actually torn by he whole thing. Trump is not, ideologically, what i would look for in a President. It has nothing to do with personality. He is not a constitutional conservative, nor a libertarian. Which, as most of you know is where my mindset lies.

By the same token, I get a Chris Matthews kind of thrill up my leg with just about anybody who can take the pillars of power in this country and shake them to the ground through the very methods of abuse that they created.

I said for some time that my reason for even voting in this election came down to one thing. SCOTUS. I will need to wait a bit longer to know whether or not my vote was misplaced. Looking at his picks, so far, I am cautiously optimistic that his pick will be more conservative than he is.

Beyond that? The establishments will regroup and they will fight him every step of the way. Establishment from all sides.

He will need to deliver some positive things within a relatively short period of time or the same fickleness that he rode into the White House will sweep him right back out again.
 
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