[tat2dru]

I recently picked up a D&D Full System for my 05 650 and I have been told told that I have to put some sort of fuel processor on it, I was also told that I didn't. So which is it? I wasnt wanting more power, I was only wanting a better sound but the full system was a steal... right place right time... Also, if I do have to go with a processor does anyone know anything about the Two Brothers Juicebox?

 

[Brian W.]

curious to what peoples opinions are on this subject aswell....

 

[slattmattery]

No real need to spend all that cash on a PCIII or whatever. If I remember correctly, you can take your stock fuel system and have it remapped by a local shop with your new exhaust for a much lower price.

 

[neemeth]

No real need to spend all that cash on a PCIII or whatever. If I remember correctly, you can take your stock fuel system and have it remapped by a local shop with your new exhaust for a much lower price.

This is true but the fact is you have to do something. A full exhaust and stock map is not a good combo. I bought my bike with a full yosh and pcIII. Shame on me but I assumed that the PCIII was tuned correctly. I noticed after the first few rides that I was way rich and ran sluggish. I checked and the map being used was for a full stock bike. Downloaded the right map and runs like a top.

 

[ari211]

I have a full Yosh system on my SV and I ran a Power Commander for a while, all it did was sap 5mpg. Yanked the PC and regained my mileage with no ill side effects. No popping or backfiring, and I just changed my plugs and they looked fine, not lean or anything.

PC not necessary.

 

[ari211]

This is true but the fact is you have to do something. A full exhaust and stock map is not a good combo. I bought my bike with a full yosh and pcIII. Shame on me but I assumed that the PCIII was tuned correctly. I noticed after the first few rides that I was way rich and ran sluggish. I checked and the map being used was for a full stock bike. Downloaded the right map and runs like a top.

Just thought I'd add that I ran the bike w/ full Yosh and no PC for about 6k miles. People told me it would backfire like mad and run rough, but it runs fine.

 

[Gerard7aa]

You can run it without a PCIII. You can maximize the exhaust mod with a proper fuel map.

 

[tat2dru]

Now the tough part is finding a shop around here to remap it...

 

[SeeMyExkurrrzun]

You can pay somewhere between 100-125 dollars per hour for a Dyno tune, or you can spend ~300 for a mail order tune. I'd personally rather spend the money to have a professional tune my bike in person than a pre-programed computer chip.

 

[jdewkilla]

I have only played with a PC111 on a 1000RR witha full 2bros system and I liked playing with it.
You wouldnt put an exhaust on a carb'd motor without rejetting.. But does the factory FI system have the capability to compensate for the increased flow?? is the amount a fuel changed even a little once the oxygen sensors detect a lean condition?

 

[mike mc]

I bought a used 03 with a full yoshimura system and no power commander. I have not noticed any flat spots in acceleration and the plugs look perfect. I enabled the pair system and it pops off unburnt fuel. I've been riding it this way for 8000 miles. I think the fuel management is allright. Perhaps it was remapped? I doubt it as I don't think it's all that easy to find a shop with a yosh box around here. What is your take? If I were toasting the engine internals with incorrect mapping, wouldn't I know it by now? Wouldn't the plug insulators be a different color than the chocolate milk/dark tan they are? The electrodes are pristine. Does anyone REALLY KNOW, or are most of the posters here regurgitating what they read somewhere. Actual experience,anyone?

 

[imdying]

Your aassumptions are pretty close. If you're not noticing any ill effects, then keep your money in your wallet. An engine will run well on a fairly wide range of AFRs, you have to be reasonably brutal to knacker one by running lean, especially on EFI as it's reasonably precise about how it delivers it. Perhaps there's a few bhp along the curve to pickup, perhaps it'll improve driveability through tuning, or perhaps decrease MPG if that's the way you have your tuner head... is it worth the $300 for a PCIII, probably not... $300 for a few bhp ain't too bad though, if you make plenty, and you like to tinker, then that might be enough to justify it. Of course, picking up gains through the range means a few hours on the dyno, you'd want to factor in that cost asa well.

 

[svsuperninja]

pc3 is a waste unless you have dyno time.

i desnorkled my airbox and am running a slash cut straight pipe. bike runs fine. lost a little engine braking. plugs still looking ok. torque curve feels different tho, hard for me to explain.
it still feels just as fast as before, but in a different way.

i'll be installing a megaphone exhaust soon. then eventually will get a dyno tune to suit my
aggressive street riding style. just my $0.02.

 

[Zokambaa]

I recently picked up a D&D Full System for my 05 650 and I have been told told that I have to put some sort of fuel processor on it, I was also told that I didn't. So which is it? I wasnt wanting more power, I was only wanting a better sound but the full system was a steal... right place right time... Also, if I do have to go with a processor does anyone know anything about the Two Brothers Juicebox?

Most say you can run the maps from PowerCommander and it is just fine.. although a custom may be a little better most say it isn't that big of a deal...

My bike isn't running quite as well with my new Full M-4 System on it... and the temps are showing higher too... so it may be a bit too lean... I'd rather get the bike closer to where it should be.... I got the full system for more than just the looks and sound.. I wanted a little bit of performance boost too... perhaps in the future I'll get a custom map... but for now the PCIII will have to do I can get them to do the full custom map for my PCIII later on if I want to get anal about it.... the chip is not preprogrammed you load a map, or you get a custom map done.. PCIII just has some maps they did for the SV and various exhausts to get you closer to where you should be running after the modification to the air/exhaust

Not sure of your system...but M4, Yosh, 2 Bros, Leo Vince, Micron systems are included... they have some for Hindle too I believe but I think the map was for the european model wich I believe will put you a bit lean... You might contact Dynojet/Powercommander they are pretty good about answering questions within a few days...

I am about to put mine on tomorrow I believe...

I got mine at a decent price from Blair... SV-Racing-Parts so he may be able to hook you up if you like...


You will need some remapping though... however you do it teclusion, custom maps, tekka, or whatever the other options are...

I went PCIII-USB as I can install is myself and load a map... and every shop with a dyno in town can run me a custom map if I really want it for the PCIII... however for other fuel mods shops are hit and miss for fuel tuning other than PC... at least in my city..

 

[element155]

do not buy a pc3 they really really suck, all you will get is a supper annoying fi light any time its below 60-55 degrees outside, they really super suck, oh and b.t.w. when you send it to them in las Vegas cause it dose that all they will do is send i back to you and say they found nothing wrong, and will only gain a neglidable power increase on th 650. and thats from expearance. do not waist your money. :violent1:

 

[Zokambaa]

do not buy a pc3 they really really suck, all you will get is a supper annoying fi light any time its below 60-55 degrees outside, they really super suck, oh and b.t.w. when you send it to them in las Vegas cause it dose that all they will do is send i back to you and say they found nothing wrong, and will only gain a neglidable power increase on th 650. and thats from expearance. do not waist your money. :violent1:

waist or waste money??


if you are running it on a 07... don't they have an 02 sensor?, the 08's do anyway....

if so that may be part of the problem...

anyway... whatever you use, you need to have the bike able to adjust to the difference (after a can and air changes) and apply the right map for the fuel and air situation... be it aftermarket air filter and full exhaust system or not

however you get there you need the bike to put more gas in if there is more air...and more free flowing exhaust...

generally the PCIII is fine if it is set up right... and you can find it for less than $300 now too... the good thing about the PCIII is that it can easily be tweaked to apply the fuel at the right time.. sure the stock computer can be reprogrammed but it is easier to load a map in the PCIII and if you want to take the power commander off you can return the bike to stock at any time.... if you reprogram the computer it is not as easy to return to normal you have to take it in again and get it reprogrammed again..

 

[dream36realms]

lol at using a pc3 with o2 system. the little gain we can enjoy on our bikes from it wont be available to u since the stock compouter allready adjusts for it, lol.

 

[Zokambaa]

Who cares about power increases with Power commanders... that isn't the point.. I thought it was to get the fuel mappings right for what you are doing with the bike.....​

Personally I don't care as long as the bike rides right with it in place.. and if I can easily modify parts of the mapping to changes with the bike....​

I've found a map done by a shop costs $300 or so to reprogram the stock computer... the pc is easier to adjust and if loading a generic M4 map for the SV gets it close to where it should be rather than hoping it works without a mapping to the stock computer is fine by me...​

Here in my city it is is cheaper to reprogram a power commander on the dyno... it is much more expensive to do a custom map for the stock computer... and few places do it.... almost everyone will mod for the PCIII but few mod for the stock computer...​

this way I can run a map, get it close enough, do a custom map if I want, and then pull all the parts off (pipe air filter, pcIII etc...) and have the bike back fully at stock trim again... it is easier than taking it to a shop again and having them run yet another map back to the stock computer...​

I think it does the job.. it isnt a miracle so do whatever works for you with the funds you ahve available...​

 

[element155]

waist or waste money??


if you are running it on a 07... don't they have an 02 sensor?, the 08's do anyway....

if so that may be part of the problem...

anyway... whatever you use, you need to have the bike able to adjust to the difference (after a can and air changes) and apply the right map for the fuel and air situation... be it aftermarket air filter and full exhaust system or not

however you get there you need the bike to put more gas in if there is more air...and more free flowing exhaust...

generally the PCIII is fine if it is set up right... and you can find it for less than $300 now too... the good thing about the PCIII is that it can easily be tweaked to apply the fuel at the right time.. sure the stock computer can be reprogrammed but it is easier to load a map in the PCIII and if you want to take the power commander off you can return the bike to stock at any time.... if you reprogram the computer it is not as easy to return to normal you have to take it in again and get it reprogrammed again..

Waste but the implication was there. Anyway no 02 sensor in non ca trim svs for 07 genius, and the bike, its been custom mapped. Read again and see why know the pc3 is junk, fi code when its below 60-55, and they seem to think thats ok at dynojet, get the point........it causes misfire codes when the bike is in enrichment mode for cold weather.

 

[Zokambaa]

Waste but the implication was there. Anyway no 02 sensor in non ca trim svs for 07 genius, and the bike, its been custom mapped. Read again and see why know the pc3 is junk, fi code when its below 60-55, and they seem to think thats ok at dynojet, get the point........it causes misfire codes when the bike is in enrichment mode for cold weather.

Well I can't tell what specific model your bike is.. so that's why the o2 question... not to mention the dual plugs in each cylinder which means there are some differences in the 07+ bikes..... anyway ... there is something up with YOUR PCIII unit, or the connectors, or the bike.. whatever it is, it is in your environment...

I can tell you, here in Canada it gets a hell of a lot colder then 60F.. in fact that is about the temp of my condo's underground parking garage... this time of year it fluctuates between 60 and 70F, and the bike works fine in there I drove it around the parkade for about 10 minutes or so when I first put it in the bike...

Then when it was nice enough on the roads, I get outside it is 23F to about 41F.... what do you know.... it works fine there too.... then after work I start the bike up after sitting in the cold all day at about 32F.... again nothing... no issues yet...

My bike is an 06 with the PCIII model designed for the earlier bikes (model 313-411) the 07+ bikes use model 337-411... so perhaps there is a bug in that specific system... hell I dunno... it doesn't look like there are a lot of maps for the 07+ PCIII yet... but you have the custom map.. so it wouldn't matter anyway...
Still though... the 07+ PCIII is different than the 03-06 one and I don't have an 07 bike so I can't say if all the 07+ PCIII units are bad on the SV or not.


All I can tell you is mine is working like a charm in a variety of temperatures all below 60F...


But by saying everyone will have the same problem as you and that they are sh!t, you are wrong...

many many people have them and run them with no problems.... I know a lot in my city as well...

aside from getting the mapping right or the installation procedure itself, I've not heard many problems with them... and the reason to get one is not always to gain more power... it is just to get the fuel mappings closer to optimal for your bike setup... it's not some magic box that will suddenly give you 10 horsepower...

Mine was running ok after putting on a full M4 but not as good as stock.... I put the power commander on it with the m4 map and it is now as good if not a bit better than stock... I've not put a lot of miles on it yet to tell but it is better than running the M4 without it..

get a shop to map your stock computer.... use one of the other methods... it doesn't really matter if your bike runs better in the end.... I know mine did with the PC... your results may vary