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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wasn't sure where to post this; I figured the racing forum would be a good place.
There's a small series of corners that I can't quite figure out at my local track. So I made a stitch from google maps, and figured I'd ask you folks!

I left them as stand alone links because of their large size.

http://i.imgur.com/DcUoG.jpg

The orange colored line is more or less what I follow now.
The green colored line is what I think may be a better way around.
Going from the exit of the large carrousel turn into the little kink, it goes downhill. The apex of the kink is the lowest spot - the outside of that turn is a bit higher. After the apex is goes uphill a little bit.

Any tips you guys could give looking at this? This series of turns is my bane. I lose so much speed and time in this sequence, it drives me crazy.

Here's a version of that image without my doodling, if anyone wants to draw their own.

http://i.imgur.com/1mpnp.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yup. 2 > 3 > bus stop > 4. That little chain of turns.

Currently I enter turn 3 on the far outside and sort of double apex before going into bus stop, in which I then turn a bit early.
My revised idea is to hug the inside going into 3 so I have a super late apex, then turn super late into bus stop - beyond the concrete patch.
 

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Your idea is somewhat in line with one of the fast lines thru 3

I would suggest (on a sv) mid track for the entrance to the carosel and aim the bike to be mid track on the exit of the carosel (one apex), should be able to get to full throttle in 4th gear near redline geared 15/47 or 14/45-6 that way, for the car chicane flip the bike to the left and get it pointed at the left side curbing...should leave you near mid track into the busstop, grab a downshift and brake to the apex just inside the concrete patch, flip bike left after apex on the gas (watch it hte front gets light some times if you do it right) grab an upshift and roll out/turn in for 4 before you see the curbing aim the knee for over the curbing/in the grass...get throttle open grab a gear befroe 5 and don't turn in too early for 5...I'm usually close to 10k in 5th by the time I get to the brake zone for 6a...there are faster gents there than me but the above is what I've gleaned from them and running this course enough times to do it blindfolded hehe
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The RPMs you're talking about seem really high, even with slightly taller gearing.
Redline in 4th puts me near 100mph, and 10k in 5th would be well over that.

Most of the advanced group videos I've seen show them exiting turn 3 about 80-85mph, and hitting maybe 100mph before braking for turn six.

I do most of the track in 3rd gear, though during my last day I found myself hitting the rev limiter and needing to upshift through turn two and going from five to six.
 

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I would suggest asking this same question on chicagolandsportbikes.com

Tons of members there ride Blackhawk mutliple times a year, many being CR's and owning SV's
 

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Turn 2 is fifth gear near WOT... my better laps at bfr average above 86mph on a CCS supersport spec gen1 sv

the description above is fairly accurate - granted it's hard to watch the tach and the corner at the same time so take it as such - biggest bit of advice I can give you is approach the limit slowly :cool:

trust me it hurts to find it the other way

gearing on my ss bike is currently 15-47, emulators up front, elka triple clicker out back, Michelin dot race rubber...VB front and B rear...thinking of trying 14/46 next year and see where that puts some of the shifts

Turn by turn gear for me is
T1 - 4th
T2 - 5th
T3a - 4th
T3d - wanting 5th....
busstop - 3rd
T4 - 4th
T5 - 5th, it is a bit of a short shift going in but you need the headroom coming out
T6a - 4th (if I stay at this gearing might try 3rd next year, but this spot is one of the reasons I'm thinking of messing with the gearing)
T6b - flat out in 4th
T7 - 3rd

The line I was describing thru the twisties can be done at any speed realistically and quite frankly there are at least 5 good lines thru the bfr T2 and carosel...it's one of my favorite passing places

Looking like I won't be out there 10/10 with Motovid...but if you want ping me in spring and I'll see about grabbing some time down there to come play (will bring the gopro for video even - grin)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Dang, guess it shows how much faster you are than me! I'm pretty much one gear below you in all those turns. Though for the 10th here I have a new ZX10 shock (bus stop was scary with the stock unit, yikes), some BT003s to replace my PilotRoad3s as a track tire, better brake pads and SS lines.
My goal is to be asked (rather than me asking) by the CRs to bump up to the next group.

If you can draw up somethin on the lines you take when you get off work or whatever, I would greatly appreciate it. All the SV guys I've met at the track have said they take different lines than what's marked by the dots on the track. Hard to figure out what they're talkin about without visuals though...
 

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Lol, ya I hear you - scary is there are guys 9 seconds a lap faster than me, the dots for the carosel thru to t4 are correct for a car and wrong for a bike for sure...tho some are close - I might have a front facing vid from the other year...I'll see if I can find that later tonight

(edit: fixed typos lol)
 

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Well - ok -ONE guy in the 13s on a sv superbike is 9 seconds (ish) faster

He talks I tend to listen..and some of the above is directly from him
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'd be happy if I got my laptimes down to 1:35.

:(

I look forward to any videos you can dig up. I got the idea for turn 3 watching an advanced group SV video on youtube, so more would certainly help me out. Also gives me ideas on how to setup passes and the like. :)
 

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^If you go faster, passes will set themselves up. Still awhile before you should even need to worry about that.
This from the guy we don't see anymore... - you going to "find" time to come play next year Trace?

On the go faster and passes present themselves....sorta true sorta not...in novice and intermediate groups you have to give yourself a bit more room than under race conditions (or an advance group), good suspension, seat time and working on reference points and braking/throttle transitions is likely where your time and money would best be spent at the moment....If I get 2 moments I'll see if I can find out if any of the sv having coaches are going on the 10th (if you want)....it is different riding a sv around BFR fast than an I4
 

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This from the guy we don't see anymore... - you going to "find" time to come play next year Trace?

On the go faster and passes present themselves....sorta true sorta not...in novice and intermediate groups you have to give yourself a bit more room than under race conditions (or an advance group), good suspension, seat time and working on reference points and braking/throttle transitions is likely where your time and money would best be spent at the moment....If I get 2 moments I'll see if I can find out if any of the sv having coaches are going on the 10th (if you want)....it is different riding a sv around BFR fast than an I4
Terry- I should be able to make it next year (should have 0 debt and tons of money).
And I think what I have to say is very valid. 1:25 isn't a bad time with my uh... lack of brakes lol (for those who don't know, turns out there was a pinhole somewhere in the lines. so pry had 10% braking power). I'm sure without the need to coast/engine brake my times would've been a decent.

Back to business. I think for Novice and Intermediate you shouldn't worry about setting up passes. The difference in speed for all riders in those groups is pretty huge. So if you are faster, you will blow by the other rider. If not, run through hot pit lane to give them space. Once you hit advanced group, you might want to learn how to pass but it comes kinda naturally.
 

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Cool, you missed a good amatuer SV race year...lots of good new talent

Found the video...it's from a play day at BFR with the old tired motor in the race bike (last year I think) oddly I was working on turns 2 thru 4 that day hehe so it should be close to what you were looking for...youtube is taking forever to upload it.... will post up a link when/if it completes
 

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Your idea is somewhat in line with one of the fast lines thru 3

I would suggest (on a sv) mid track for the entrance to the carosel and aim the bike to be mid track on the exit of the carosel (one apex), should be able to get to full throttle in 4th gear near redline geared 15/47 or 14/45-6 that way, for the car chicane flip the bike to the left and get it pointed at the left side curbing...should leave you near mid track into the busstop, grab a downshift and brake to the apex just inside the concrete patch, flip bike left after apex on the gas (watch it hte front gets light some times if you do it right) grab an upshift and roll out/turn in for 4 before you see the curbing aim the knee for over the curbing/in the grass...get throttle open grab a gear befroe 5 and don't turn in too early for 5...I'm usually close to 10k in 5th by the time I get to the brake zone for 6a...there are faster gents there than me but the above is what I've gleaned from them and running this course enough times to do it blindfolded hehe
Yep, I prettymuch agree with this. :eek:ccasion14:

Here is a few of my videos for reference.


 

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I'd agree turning into 4 early is a very important thing. If you turn in early, you can gas it early, and you really don't let until 6. I think for turn 5 I always turned in around the gate where the crash truck comes and goes.
 

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Oh and Jared..I was so trying to erase those days the bike wasn't running right from memory lol glad to know you have video of them....sigh
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Was this a race practice? I see lots of inside passing and no CRs.

From what I am gathering, I should be able to add another 10mph to all my corner speeds quite easily. I elected to sign up for the novice group again for the last track day... the first session really sucks since they make us go around at like 40mph, but usually for every session after I just make sure I'm the first one up and it's free track until I lap someone. :p

I think at the moment I'm still too squirrely for intermediate, even if my pace is decent enough.

I'm going to make sure to study the night before I go, and bring a map or two with me to make notes on and doodle. :)
 
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