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If you read his manifesto, it is apparent that this was not a crazed lunatic at all. This man was highly educated, well spoken and well financed.

The only fragment of an answer that we have heard from the American press is that he wanted to spark an anti-Muslim crusade in Europe ..

So, how would attacking a youth labor camp for Norwegian teenagers accomplish that end? (and why is no one in the MSM asking that obvious question?)

Ummm .. because he hated their freedom?

I think not ...

Being as described in red does not mean that one cannot be a crazed lunatic. We're just lucky that most crazed lunatics are poor and intellectually challenged, else we'd be living a Bat Man movie over and over again.
 

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The unabomber was an ivy league mathematician (Harvard).

Doesnt exlude him from the ranks of lunacy.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Being as described in red does not mean that one cannot be a crazed lunatic. We're just lucky that most crazed lunatics are poor and intellectually challenged, else we'd be living a Bat Man movie over and over again.

The US main stream media will, as a matter of course, write such people off as "crazy" thereby avoiding having to discuss ideas and issues that are off limits for public discussion.

Instead the MSM has focused the discussion on sentencing lengths in Norway as a distraction from the underlying issues.

This was an act of terrorism .. there was an agenda.

It was not random, meaningless violence ..
 

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1. I didn't call him a "crazed lunatic," although that might be an apt label. He clearly saw connections between his avowed political goals and the powerful, violent, cruel acts he perpetrated. When I said his actions made sense to him, I intended to point out the fact that they don't make any obvious sense to most of the rest of us.
2.
So, how would attacking a youth labor camp for Norwegian teenagers accomplish that end? (and why is no one in the MSM asking that obvious question?)
This is the second time you posed this same question in this thread. Would you like to propose an answer. Or, do you think that, rather than asking interesting questions and then making up interesting (but essentially baseless) answers, the "mainstream media" should simply report the facts on this sad, odd story and wait for reliable information to become available?
 

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Discussion Starter #26

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Discussion Starter #27
The perpetual spewing of racist vitriol has consequences.

So it should come as no surprise that after years of anti-Muslim propaganda and hate, someone finally acted out a violent counter-jihad, which is what this was.

Breivik is, according to his manifesto, an avid fan of U.S.-based anti-Muslim activists such as Pamela Geller and Daniel Pipes, and has repeatedly professed his unwavering support for right wing Israel. He refers endlessly to material from David Horowitz’s website, Frontpagemag.com and uses verbatim material from the Horowitz-affiliated “Jihad Watch,” run by professional hater and make-believe “scholar” Robert Spencer.
He was motivated, it seems, by a mix of White Islamophobia and Christian-Zionism. He envisioned himself as a knight, defending white Europe, crusade-like, from the mongrel hoard.

So why attack Norwegians?

Simple. Norway's labor party progressives openly stand opposed to Israel's Occupation of the Palestinian people. The Workers' Youth League, days before the shooting, held a well publicized rally for the boycott of Israel at Utøya Island (the site of the massacre) and called for support of BDS campaign (Boycott-Divest-Sanctions) Additionally, Norway will vote yes for Palestinian statehood in the UN in September .. despite extreme pressure from Israel and the United States.

So Sir Breivik acted out .. violently .. for White Europe, for Christianity and for Israel. He acted on a belief system that has become mainstream in many parts of the US .. including Washinton DC.

I am not saying that he was directed, funded or trained by any of those groups. But he was clearly inspired by those groups. And he committed a horrendous political terrorist act, designed to inspire and influence others.

And while these influences and motivations are being discussed worldwide in newspapers, talk shows and all over the internet, there is NO discussion of any of this in the American main stream press.

Hmmmmmmm .. Makes you wonder?
 

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If you read his manifesto, it is apparent that this was not a crazed lunatic at all. This man was highly educated, well spoken and well financed.

The only fragment of an answer that we have heard from the American press is that he wanted to spark an anti-Muslim crusade in Europe ..

So, how would attacking a youth labor camp for Norwegian teenagers accomplish that end? (and why is no one in the MSM asking that obvious question?)

Ummm .. because he hated their freedom?

I think not ...
I hate to say it, but you sound exactly like the right wing nuts I know. The MSM can't be trusted, it's all a conspiracy, the only real source of the truth is the (insert wacko fringe media outlet), asking a silly leading question that really doesn't mean anything. You're smarter than this...
 

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Not every rich nutjob kills because of some greater conspiracy at work. The mind is an incredibly powerful machine. And the moral self can often be twisted and manipulated to perceive incredible delusions.

Look at the OKC bombing. Timothy McVeigh was an intelligent and capable person. He had constructed a solid manifesto against the government over years of exposure. And he killed 168 people with nothing but a van packed full of fertilizer.

Imagine if he had spent a little more time focusing on multiple targets and full fledged assaults.

It doesn't take a conspiracy to motivate men to do such terrible things.In fact, it's often the false belief of such a conspiracy that motivates the delusional to commit such atrocities.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I hate to say it, but you sound exactly like the right wing nuts I know. The MSM can't be trusted, it's all a conspiracy, the only real source of the truth is the (insert wacko fringe media outlet), asking a silly leading question that really doesn't mean anything. You're smarter than this...
Rich, I dont appreciate that condescending dismissal from you. Rather than attack my imagined "fringe media sources" or my thoughts as "conspiracy theories" why don't you instead explain to me how my argument is factually or intellectually wrong?

Nowadays, the fastest way to end any discussion is to dismiss an idea (or even an undisputed fact) as a conspiracy theory. The person who puts forth that idea is therefore, by implication, a conspiracy nut. That's settled then. End of discussion. Turn off the thinking cap.

Well the time for that BS tactic is over ..

The facts are out there .. I don't need or trust the main stream media to put them in order for me. Do you?
 

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I'm usually the first one to condemn the mass media. But if you go over to CNN.com, you will notice quite a large supply of discussion on this subject. Gotta give credit where credit is due. They are talking about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I'm usually the first one to condemn the mass media. But if you go over to CNN.com, you will notice quite a large supply of discussion on this subject. Gotta give credit where credit is due. They are talking about it.
Links?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Army, seriously?

Where within that CNN's giant news site (or anywhere in the US MSM) is there an article that discusses the Labor Party and its position regarding the up-coming UN vote for Palestinian statehood or the rally for Norwegian Boycott Divestment and Sanction of Israel?

If it is buried in there somewhere I couldn't find it.

I see lots of articles suggesting the the kids at the Labor Youth camp were promoting "multiculturalism"

I don't see any mention that the way they were promoting it was by organizing a boycott of Israel for its occupation and brutal treatment of Palestinians.




Two days before the Utoya Island massacre, AUF’s (Labour Party’s youth movement) leader Eskil Pedersen gave an interview to the Dagbladet, Norway’s second largest tabloid newspaper, in which he unveiled what he thinks of Israel. Pederson went on to say, “The peace process goes nowhere, and though the whole world expect Israel to comply, they do not. We in Labour Youth will have a unilateral economic embargo of Israel from the Norwegian side.”


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If you read his manifesto, it is apparent that this was not a crazed lunatic at all. This man was highly educated, well spoken and well financed.

The only fragment of an answer that we have heard from the American press is that he wanted to spark an anti-Muslim crusade in Europe ..

So, how would attacking a youth labor camp for Norwegian teenagers accomplish that end? (and why is no one in the MSM asking that obvious question?)

Ummm .. because he hated their freedom?

I think not ...
I don't give a sh!t what his manifesto says or how highly educated, well spoken or financed he was. If you take a bunch of guns and mow down a bunch of innocent people and blow up a bunch of other innocent people.....your fawking crazy. I don't care if those people have different political views then the a$$hole that killed them all, they didn't deserve to die. If you think that him killing a bunch of people is OK then you are just an idiot. What if it were your family or your friends that got killed to prove some guys agenda.

What this guy did is no different then any other act of terrorism, it doesn't matter what his point in his manifesto was...he killed people for the wrong reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I don't give a sh!t what his manifesto says or how highly educated, well spoken or financed he was. If you take a bunch of guns and mow down a bunch of innocent people and blow up a bunch of other innocent people.....your fawking crazy. I don't care if those people have different political views then the a$$hole that killed them all, they didn't deserve to die. If you think that him killing a bunch of people is OK then you are just an idiot. What if it were your family or your friends that got killed to prove some guys agenda.

What this guy did is no different then any other act of terrorism, it doesn't matter what his point in his manifesto was...he killed people for the wrong reason.
Ahhh .. the internet. Where misunderstanding (usually from not bothering to read the whole thread or just being stupid) is the norm. Why do I waste my time?
 

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I don't give a sh!t what his manifesto says or how highly educated, well spoken or financed he was. If you take a bunch of guns and mow down a bunch of innocent people and blow up a bunch of other innocent people.....your fawking crazy. I don't care if those people have different political views then the a$$hole that killed them all, they didn't deserve to die. If you think that him killing a bunch of people is OK then you are just an idiot. What if it were your family or your friends that got killed to prove some guys agenda.

What this guy did is no different then any other act of terrorism, it doesn't matter what his point in his manifesto was...he killed people for the wrong reason.
I've reread RD350's post several times now and I don't see any hint that he condoned the killing of those people.

You missed the point of his post entirely. He was simply stating that this guy had an agenda, but no one seems to be asking how killing those people at the youth camp furthers that agenda
 

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RD350: I'm not sure I see the point of criticizing news organizations for failing to disseminate Brevik's rationale for his actions. The immediate "news" value was the unexpected violence and killing, not that somebody has a political point of view. Leaving aside the conventional critiques of journalism (i.e. sensationalism sells;) American news outlets especially have to factor in the fact that most Americans have no idea where or what Norway might be, what Norwegian political issues are, who's in government now and who is the opposition, and whether Norway is a mono- or multicultural society.

It wouldn't matter to me what the subjective justifications might be for these kinds of acts of disgusting and disrespectful violence. No matter who the self-styled "freedon-fighter" or "patriot" might be, the ends never justify killing innocent people for some political point.
 
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