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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I decided to learn how to up shift without the clutch. Never really something I have felt the need to know, but I was bored and figured I should learn how. Turns out, I already knew how, because I just did it and it worked. Then I did it again and it worked even better. Except in first, that was not such a great idea, a bit rough going through neutral. Yeah I know, not really an impressive trick, but I got a kick out of it.
 

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? won't that mess up your clutch? I know GP guys do it to save .0001 seconds per lap, but I'd rather keep my clutch.

I guess revv matching would make it smoother but still hard on your bike.
 

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GP bikes a quick shifters so they dont need the clutch to upshift...its not that they choose not to.
 

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? won't that mess up your clutch? I know GP guys do it to save .0001 seconds per lap, but I'd rather keep my clutch...
that's what I heard too. But who really knows. It might be a long-term and or high-frequency type of failure/degradation.

GP/WSB racers can do it because they've also got financial balls to. For most of us? If our engine kaputs... we'd be scurrying around to see what funds we can pull from where and if we'd be in the hold if we did... :'(
 

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It's only bad on your clutch if something is grinding or otherwise not meshing. If you do it right it's no problem. Clutchless downshifting, on the other hand, has never really worked for me. Maybe there's a secret I don't know.
 

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I was taught by Lee Parks that it's actually better on the transmission to speed shift up--but only if you are launching hard and it's under heavy load.

You go WOT from first, and preload the shifter--not enough to shift it, but nearly. Then instantly get off the gas, shift and get back on it. Do it right and your suspension barely notices it.

You can also do it futzing around at higher gears but that's just out of boredom or whatnot. Downshifting is another thing. You can do it but you can also lock up the rear. If you want to try it, be in 6th and have nobody around you. Preloading the shifter is the key.

Either way, it's good to know how to do things like this in case you have to.
 

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I clutch every shift and everyone I ride with asks my why, the Sv has a really really really clunky transmission, probably one of the worst I've ever felt so I'm simply scared to. Especially after exploding the cases on my old Cr250 doing it on the track, have'nt done it since, my hands fast enough that it's no benefit if I decide to powershift anyway.
 

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It's only bad on your clutch if something is grinding or otherwise not meshing. If you do it right it's no problem. Clutchless downshifting, on the other hand, has never really worked for me. Maybe there's a secret I don't know.

the only potential harm is damagint the dogs on your tranmission

our transmission is constant mesh, gears are always engaged, there is no way to grind gears

shifting without clutch has no substantial influence on clutch wear if anything less clutch used means less clutch wear

downshifting without clutch is just as easy as upshifting, but using reverse technique, instead of preloading shifter then momentarily reducing throttle, preload shifter under decelleration then blip the throttle, the transmission will snick down a gear as easily as it upshifts

good skill to have in the event you break a clutch cable 100 miles away from home
 

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downshifting without clutch is just as easy as upshifting, but using reverse technique, instead of preloading shifter then momentarily reducing throttle, preload shifter under decelleration then blip the throttle, the transmission will snick down a gear as easily as it upshifts
I KNEW there was a secret! Based on the (very poor) results I got from trying it, this makes perfect sense. Thanks Randy :)
 

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? won't that mess up your clutch? I know GP guys do it to save .0001 seconds per lap, but I'd rather keep my clutch.

I guess revv matching would make it smoother but still hard on your bike.
The last thing it will wear out is the clutch as the clutch doesn't slip or engage/disengage at all.

As mentioned, next is clutchless downshifts. I only use the clutch when stopping/starting and then for 1-2/2-1 when traffic is really tight, I'm in a parking lot, or I'm moving slowly with a passenger.

It's wonderfully smooth, easy, and convenient once you're used to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think I will leave the downshifting for later, it is just a novelty for me right now anyway. I still used the clutch most of the time, but it is fun to do and very easy.
 

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I've been regularly shifting (up, down, 1-2, 2-1, 1-N, N-2) without the clutch for nearly 30k miles on my 2003 SV and have no problems with the transmission or clutch. (aside: I'm running Rotella non-synth and change my oil filter every other oil change!)

Clutchless shifting is smoothest in all-out acceleration for some reason and shifting is smoother than when using the clutch no matter how fast or slow I'm accelerating.

One tip to add to frick's good instructions is this: when "blipping" the throttle, don't wait for the gear to change before choosing to reengage the throttle - just off/on real quick while putting pressure on the shifter. Waiting until it goes in to decide to get back on the throttle will cause a jerky shift.
 

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I use the clutch on the street, have shifted without it by accident a few times.

But when I rode at Glamis going up steep hills you had to speed downshift without the clutch to keep you going or else you will stop, it never hurt the atcs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Clutchless shifting is smoothest in all-out acceleration for some reason and shifting is smoother than when using the clutch no matter how fast or slow I'm accelerating.

At least part of the reason is that not using the clutch causes less of a break in power and therefore does not upset the suspension as much. Other then that it is not all that different mechanically then using the clutch.
 

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? won't that mess up your clutch? I know GP guys do it to save .0001 seconds per lap, but I'd rather keep my clutch.

I guess revv matching would make it smoother but still hard on your bike.
no it doesnt mess up the clutch.. not even a little... i would be more worried about the way i hear all sorts of people slipping the clutch in every gear for every shift like they were in first and trying to climb mt everest. clutchlesshifting should be like butter and should only be done on the 3-4 4-5 and 5-6
 

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Well I'm by far from any form of mechanical expert... but how can the clutch ever be harmed if it's not partially engaged??? I mean if the clutch plates are not touching each other at all, obviously there is no harm. If the clutch plates are not slipping at all... there is no harm. "CLUTCH-LESS" to me means the clutch doesn't even enter the equation. Screwing up the gears in your transmission from jamming them around, while under load, I could see being possible. When you clutchless upshift you can feel the friction in the transmission right through your foot, to tell if your timing is on. Also... The SV transmission is clunky yes, but only if you aren't smooth/accurate with the throttle/clutch. I have been practicing very hard lately on this.. and I find that I can quite often make it up through the gears without hearing a sound from the tranny... other times big clunks if I don't rev match to well, or if I don't get fully off the throttle/back on it before the clutch is back out all the way, etc.. basically if you're getting a clunk, the timing between your hands and feet is off, from my experience.
 

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Instructions:

-roll on throttle to accel.

-hit desired rpm (e.g.8500rpm)

-roll off throttle (slightly if low rpm, a lot if from high rpm... proportionate somewhat)

-*click (sound of upshifting of gearbox)

-roll on throttle, accel., repeat.

rev matched "clutchless"...
 

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It's only bad on your clutch if something is grinding or otherwise not meshing. If you do it right it's no problem. Clutchless downshifting, on the other hand, has never really worked for me. Maybe there's a secret I don't know.
backwards of upshift. Try to rev match by throttle manipulation for smoothness.


-Decelerate to desired rpm

-*room (sound of slight throttle opening)

-*click ROOOOooooo..... (sound downshift then of rpms lowering) (you get a backfire if youre carbed unless you are slightly rich.)

-decel to desired rpm, repeat
 

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I clutch every shift and everyone I ride with asks my why, the Sv has a really really really clunky transmission, probably one of the worst I've ever felt so I'm simply scared to. Especially after exploding the cases on my old Cr250 doing it on the track, have'nt done it since, my hands fast enough that it's no benefit if I decide to powershift anyway.
My shifting is clunky, too, when I forget to "preload" the shifter like everybody above has been describing. Just put a little pressure on the shifter first, then clutch & roll off QUICKLY.
Or don't use the clutch.
I've done it, think I'll try it some more.
 
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