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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just over 2000kms (1250 miles) ago, I had purchased a new set of Pilot Roads 2s, installed by a local motorcycle shop. I had never been to this shop before, though the technician seemed to have done a decent job; however after re-installing my rims on my sv I was disappointed to discover that my rims were slightly scratched during the tire change, as well as having 'clip' style weights installed (vs. the stick on weights which don't scratch the wheels).

As my riding season progressed, I had decided to begin taking my sv to trackdays regularly, and figured that purchasing better tires that were more suited for the track would be a good investment. I had eventually decided on purchasing some Pilot Power 2CTs and went to a different local tire shop (that I've been to once before) in order to perform the tire change procedure. I figured I would keep my PR2s as spares, or at least until my new set of PP2cts needed replacement

At the shop, as the installer began to remove the original Pilot Road 2s off the front rim, he began examining the tire as soon as it was removed. He had commented to his co-worker that he had seen a piece of rubber rolling around the inside of the tire, and was trying to find where it came from. He quickly found a large tear near the bead of the tire, where the tire and rim meet:







A few minutes earlier before changing the tires, I had mentioned that the tire was initially installed by another local shop (their competition); as soon as the tear was discovered, the worker was quick to state that the damage could only have been caused when it was installed, and that his iron bar would have had no way to cause the tear during his removal(of course, trying to avoid any/all liability). He then asked me whether my tire had been leaking any air, which I told him it wasn't at all. He then suggested that I shouldn't reinstall these tires on my motorcycle, as they may not be safe.

At this point I was pretty upset/angry, realizing that my practically new set of tires were damaged, if not completely destroyed. That's over $200 that I most certainly could have used, now possibly gone to waste.

He had then begun replacing the rear tire, and once again there was a very similar tear on the tire found:





And now, I'm not sure what to think or do. I hate it when unnecessary stuff like this happens, especially knowing that I wasn't the once who caused it. I do all my maintenance myself as I know exactly what I'm doing, and always try to avoid taking my sv to any motorcycle shops unless I absolutely have to; exactly because I don't want anything like this to happen. :(

Now my question is could this have been caused by the installer of the original PR2s completed by the first shop or the remover/installer of the PR2s/PP2cts completed by the second shop? Also, is there anything I can do about it?

Finally, are either/both front and/or rear tires safe to ride on?

I could really use your input svriders!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Initial tire change was done by Ted at Rosey Toes; the second shop was Heritage Auto and Powersports. I wasn't prepared to post this on the local forums (GTAM) as I wasn't interested in dealing with the flame war that's bound to happen, as well as the opinions of those invested with either shop.
 

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I've used a couple of different types of bars, and one of them (this type) can cause that type of damage during mounting if you don't have it inserted right. Especially if the bead isn't kept down because you'll have to use much more force if you aren't doing it with the proper technique. I've caught myself messing up or having the tool slip without me realizing it immediately and having the tool start to catch in the rubber. I don't see that happening while dismounting because that end of the bar should be entirely under the bead the whole time.
 

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I've worked in various shops over the years, mostly automotive though. Either mounting or dismounting can cause tears like that. Generally though, it is going to happen during mounting.

You can bring it up with the original shop, but they are just going to point the finger at shop #2

P.S. ... stick on weights suck. I've had them come off numerous times due to the adhesive shearing
 

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deffinite install fail...

the 'bar' is UNDER the lip for removal...

price a NoMar tire changer, with trackdays and all, it MAY be cheaper than paying somebody in the longrun...
 

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Do you remember the lad that performed the install at Rosey Toes? From my experience, Kevin uses stick-on weights (short hair, glasses, has a Honda Magna I think but used to ride an SV w/ a GSXR swap and an R1) but the tech with the long hair (I always forget his name, he's a nice guy any how) uses clip-on weights.

It's a common complaint that Rosey Toes scratches rims during tire swaps. I haven't any issues personally, but I definitely wouldn't doubt the validity of the claims.

I haven't worked with Heritage before, but from what I've heard from friends they're a respectable bunch. We both know Ted's reputation.

If you're feeling up to it, head over and show Ted the tires. He'll probably burp, say something about your mom and then either try to meet you somewhere in the middle or tell ya to **** off. But atleast there's a chance of some form of compensation.

Side note, are you doing the GTAM Grand Bend track day next weekend?
 

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Now my question is could this have been caused by the installer of the original PR2s completed by the first shop or the remover/installer of the PR2s/PP2cts completed by the second shop? Also, is there anything I can do about it?

Finally, are either/both front and/or rear tires safe to ride on?
1) Most likely it was caused by a pneumatic tire machine during the initial install, not enough lube/in the right places, and the opposite side of the tire from the bar was not pushed into the wheel center.

2) You can ***** to the guy about his poor workmanship if it makes you feel better, but I wouldn't expect him to do anything for you. Why? the tears in that part of the tire don't mean anything. They're harmless IMO.

3) OTOH, those tires are possibly unsafe on your bike. I'll cover the shipping cost if you'll kindly send them to me, as they're perfectly safe to use on my bike. :evil6:

4) There's nothing wrong with clip-on wheel weights. If properly installed, they stay put better than some stick-ons. New bikes come from the factory with clip-ons...
Bummer on the scratches but hey, it's a wheel, it's gonna get scratched sooner or later.

Seriously, those tears, though aggravating really are harmless. The tires worked just fine for the first 1,250 miles, didn't they? The bead on a tire is unbelievably tough. Take an old tire and try cutting it and you'll be a believer.

FWIW, I've been changing tires for umm... more than 35 years. Six years ago I bought a No-Mar tire changer and have changed roughly 200 tires on it -7 just last week. Don't sweat the small stuff, just go ride and forget about it. :rock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the input everyone.

deffinite install fail...

the 'bar' is UNDER the lip for removal...

price a NoMar tire changer, with trackdays and all, it MAY be cheaper than paying somebody in the longrun...
I have considered purchasing a tire-changing device, though since I currently live in an apartment building, that isn't too practical. For now, I'll have to rely on someone else for tire changing.


Do you remember the lad that performed the install at Rosey Toes? From my experience, Kevin uses stick-on weights (short hair, glasses, has a Honda Magna I think but used to ride an SV w/ a GSXR swap and an R1) but the tech with the long hair (I always forget his name, he's a nice guy any how) uses clip-on weights.

It's a common complaint that Rosey Toes scratches rims during tire swaps. I haven't any issues personally, but I definitely wouldn't doubt the validity of the claims.

I haven't worked with Heritage before, but from what I've heard from friends they're a respectable bunch. We both know Ted's reputation.

If you're feeling up to it, head over and show Ted the tires. He'll probably burp, say something about your mom and then either try to meet you somewhere in the middle or tell ya to **** off. But atleast there's a chance of some form of compensation.

Side note, are you doing the GTAM Grand Bend track day next weekend?
I believe the man who changed my tires was actually Ted; tall man in his late 50's I'd say.

I was thinking about approaching the shop who I believed was responsible for the damage (thanks to this thread), though I highly doubt anything would actually happen in terms of compensation.

As for the GTAM trackday at GBM, I was considering it though ended up deciding not to participate. I figured I would rather spend the money on a different trackday organized on a weekday, in hopes of having a fairly open track with few riders. That being said, apparently there will be trackdays held both on Saturday and Sunday, which I'm sure a lot of people are happy about. Will you be attending either trackday?

1) Most likely it was caused by a pneumatic tire machine during the initial install, not enough lube/in the right places, and the opposite side of the tire from the bar was not pushed into the wheel center.

2) You can ***** to the guy about his poor workmanship if it makes you feel better, but I wouldn't expect him to do anything for you. Why? the tears in that part of the tire don't mean anything. They're harmless IMO.

3) OTOH, those tires are possibly unsafe on your bike. I'll cover the shipping cost if you'll kindly send them to me, as they're perfectly safe to use on my bike. :evil6:

4) There's nothing wrong with clip-on wheel weights. If properly installed, they stay put better than some stick-ons. New bikes come from the factory with clip-ons...
Bummer on the scratches but hey, it's a wheel, it's gonna get scratched sooner or later.

Seriously, those tears, though aggravating really are harmless. The tires worked just fine for the first 1,250 miles, didn't they? The bead on a tire is unbelievably tough. Take an old tire and try cutting it and you'll be a believer.

FWIW, I've been changing tires for umm... more than 35 years. Six years ago I bought a No-Mar tire changer and have changed roughly 200 tires on it -7 just last week. Don't sweat the small stuff, just go ride and forget about it. :rock:
Thanks for the input BentAero. I really hope you're right about the safety of the tires. If the damage caused by the installer won't in any way effect the performance of the tires, then I'd be very relieved. I suppose the main objective of this thread is to find out whether or not my tires are still good, or whether their trash. So far so good!
 

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Key thing is do YOU feel safe using them? If you have any doubts, replace them. $200 is nothing for some piece of mind.

BTW I've had tires that came off vehicles right directly from GM (I built conversion vehicles) that had tears in the rubber on the beads.
 

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if they were not leaking they should be ok. those tears in the bead won't affect perfomance but could affect sealing so monitor your tire pressure closely.

also, you can change your own tires with just a couple of tire irons and some rim protectors, (plastic or nylon pieces that clip on the rim), if you don't have room for a fancy rig. i've been doing it that way for 35 years.
 
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if they were not leaking they should be ok. those tears in the bead won't affect perfomance but could affect sealing so monitor your tire pressure closely.

also, you can change your own tires with just a couple of tire irons and some rim protectors, (plastic or nylon pieces that clip on the rim), if you don't have room for a fancy rig. i've been doing it that way for 35 years.
+ a millions
 
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