Suzuki SV650 Riders Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
751 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok so not really religion, but it was the best word I could think of. My wife recently found this web page and thought I would enjoy it, and to be honest, my reaction was...This is what I've been looking for my whole life (that sounded much sappier than it should be, I'm not a sappy person). :) Anyways, have a peek, hopefully I open someones eyes to something much greater than what our current society has to offer. IMHO. :)

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?Itemid=50
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
751 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I could see that. lol. My main thing was reading the goal on the main page. It just made too much sense to me to ignore, I'm sure not everyone agrees and most will think it sounds like a idealistic society that could never work, I just like to think it actually could.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,276 Posts
I call bs, our race has been behaving the same way it does now long before we even stopped knuckle walking. No amount of training or brainwashing can take away instinct completely and thats what most of our behavior is, instinct.

I honestly think that the human race will over populate the earth and die from disease or get smacked out of existance by an asteroid before we see the end of violence, crime and war.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,566 Posts
I call bs, our race has been behaving the same way it does now long before we even stopped knuckle walking. No amount of training or brainwashing can take away instinct completely and thats what most of our behavior is, instinct.

I honestly think that the human race will over populate the earth and die from disease or get smacked out of existance by an asteroid before we see the end of violence, crime and war.
Like every biological organism in a confined environment with no predators, our population will rise exponentially, level off, and crash due to lack of some necessity for life. The only exception may be if humans are smart enough to modify things such that the outcome is no longer certain. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,276 Posts
Like every biological organism in a confined environment with no predators, our population will rise exponentially, level off, and crash due to lack of some necessity for life. The only exception may be if humans are smart enough to modify things such that the outcome is no longer certain. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.

There are definately things that are out of our control and cannot be changed by us, those things are what are a threat to us and eventually an uncontrollable force will wipe us out once the universe is tired of our resisting. It happens to every species at some point, to beleive any species can ensure itself indefinately is a bit silly considering the simple fact that everything that lives also dies.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I recently watched both of the Zeitgeist movies. I found them to be very well done, and the content definitely provokes thought and discussion (which was their goal).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
There are definately things that are out of our control and cannot be changed by us, those things are what are a threat to us and eventually an uncontrollable force will wipe us out once the universe is tired of our resisting. It happens to every species at some point, to beleive any species can ensure itself indefinately is a bit silly considering the simple fact that everything that lives also dies.
Two words. opposable thumb.
For the first time in the history of our planet we are at a point where we can actually do something about extinction. If there were an asteroid hurteling toward Earth, we have some things we can try in order to deflect or destroy it. They might not work but we have the ability to intervine in some small way.

Someday we will have the ability to colonize other planets, I have no doubt in my mind.
 

·
OberKommandant
Joined
·
6,127 Posts
Sorry, but I don't buy into the "All people are fundamentally good and bad people are only that way because of their environment/upbringing" crap. There are some people who, despite all the positive influence around them, are simply @ssh0les. And likewise, there are people who experience unbelievable horrors that would turn Mother Theresa into the devil but maintain their good nature.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
751 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I recently watched both of the Zeitgeist movies. I found them to be very well done, and the content definitely provokes thought and discussion (which was their goal).
I would very much like to see these as well. I also like the Venus Project stuff. I know most of this is way too far out for most people to wrap their minds around, but I really think this is the direction we must go if we want to avoid the fate that Raptor22 is talking about.

Packman - I think the human element is the most important part of this equation, but at the same time, the most detrimental. Not every human would be willing or able to make this change, but many are.

Liutas - I don't think they are saying everyone is fundamentally good by default per say, at least not in the way you are thinking about it, and not the way that this statement is thrown around too much in the media. On that page they specifically say that our penal system does not work (which is obviously 100% true) and instead, we need to find these people and learn from them, question them, study them. Only after doing that will we really find out the reasoning for the crimes they committed, and by learning from that, change can happen. Right now we're not learning anything from all of this, we're just tossing it to the side and hoping we can ignore it.

One of the funniest things is that they talk a lot about how society has brainwashed us into believing that crime and evil in general is something we can't avoid as a species, in thinking about that statement, and looking at most of the responses, it completely adds up. This is an idea that suggests that these things are not a necessity, and that we can change. I like to think that's true, and I honestly believe it is. Can we make it there in time is the question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
Packman - I think the human element is the most important part of this equation, but at the same time, the most detrimental. Not every human would be willing or able to make this change, but many are.
So what happens to the ones that are "not willing to make the change"?

Solent Green?

Liutas - I don't think they are saying everyone is fundamentally good by default per say, at least not in the way you are thinking about it, and not the way that this statement is thrown around too much in the media. On that page they specifically say that our penal system does not work (which is obviously 100% true) and instead, we need to find these people and learn from them, question them, study them. Only after doing that will we really find out the reasoning for the crimes they committed, and by learning from that, change can happen. Right now we're not learning anything from all of this, we're just tossing it to the side and hoping we can ignore it.

So after we learn why they did what they did....then what do we do with them?

Again this is why these Utopia ideas will never work in the real world that we live in...ie: a world inhabited by humans.....humans by their very nature do not want to be the "same" or "equal"
Just look at how people modify their SV650's....why do they do it?
So, they aren't the same as the next guy.
Unless they can truly change human behavior in a way that takes away the natural instinct to better ones self in every way possible, there is no way you will ever reach the Utopia they want.
Also if they were able to change human behavior in that way....I for one would not want to live that way....we're all different for a reason. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
Sorry, but I don't buy into the "All people are fundamentally good and bad people are only that way because of their environment/upbringing" crap. There are some people who, despite all the positive influence around them, are simply @ssh0les. And likewise, there are people who experience unbelievable horrors that would turn Mother Theresa into the devil but maintain their good nature.
Stop that! ;)
I agree with you 100% :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,779 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
751 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I don't necessarily think they are trying to make everyone equal, that is where the confusion sets in. They are trying to make everyone equal as far as "class" is concerned, and they suggest making this possible by taking out class. Nobody wants to be the same as everyone else, but I don't mod my SV to make it different, I mod it to make it mine, and make it suit my needs and wants. If I saw someone that had done the exact mods I had, I wouldn't be mad, I would just realize that I have something in common with that person.

I've seen Equilibrium and The Island, and I think people are thinking that this is the same type of deal, but it's not. If you have the time, I recommend reading through the entire "goal" on the main page. That just hit far too close to home for me to just ignore and pass it off as a nice Utopian idea that would never work. Humans aren't the problem, human nature isn't the problem, society as it is now, is the problem. Looking at it, that statement makes me seem like I'm some out there hippie, but I promise I'm not. :) I guess these are just idea's that I think could really show everyone on this planet what humans are actually capable of, and I really believe we could eventually get to that place.

If we aren't trying to further the human race and expand what we are now and grow (emotionally, spiritually etc), what's the point?
 

·
OberKommandant
Joined
·
6,127 Posts
They are trying to make everyone equal as far as "class" is concerned, and they suggest making this possible by taking out class.
In order to bring everybody into the same class, we'd have to make it the "lowest common denominator" class. Thanks, but I don't want to be a member of that "class"

I think could really show everyone on this planet what humans are actually capable of
I've seen plenty of what "humans are actually capable of", I'd rather not have a whole society built on it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
751 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
In order to bring everybody into the same class, we'd have to make it the "lowest common denominator" class. Thanks, but I don't want to be a member of that "class"

I've seen plenty of what "humans are actually capable of", I'd rather not have a whole society built on it.
Lowest common denominator class doesn't come into play here, NO CLASS is the answer. I know this is hard to understand or fathom, but it is possible. You can't wrap your brain around it because its so different than what your used to, but it really is possible no matter how unlikely.

And I've seen what humans are actually capable of too, I live in ND where we've had horrible flooding this year, and I've seen thousands of people come together to help fight to keep their homes and their neighbors homes safe. I've seen people travel from other states to come help sand bag and fill sand bags. We didn't stand around waiting for the government to fix our problem, we did what we could in the time we had to fix it ourselves, and to help others fix it.

I feel sorry for anyone so jaded that they just can't see past all the evil in the world...when you stop seeing the good in people and cannot accept that things are not always what they appear, you've lost the fight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
I feel sorry for anyone so jaded that they just can't see past all the evil in the world...
I feel sorry for anyone who does not realize that there are evil people in the world that only want to see you and I dead....no matter what. Again...what is the plan for these people after they have been "studied"? Do we just kill them? Imprison them? Put them in a rocket and launch them into space? You need to do something with them because they will always be in the way of "Utopia" forming. Yes, all that sounds just wonderful....but the reality of the world we live in at this point in time will noway, nohow be transformed into this ideal......maybe hundreds or thousands of years from now.....unless some of these "evil" people manage to annihilate all of us on the planet in the mean time. :rolleyes:
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top