[TJinPgh]

I think Americans are way too comfortable now to risk their necks, but if there was a civil war, it would be the absolute end of the USA.
China and/or Russia would watch you kill each other from afar, then just roll in and take it all, and nobody could stop them.
And where would all the millions of American refugees flee too, Mexico? Canada? Bridges are being burned there as we speak.

Virginia policewoman shot dead on first shift
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35681240

So, basically, your second post contradicted your first.

First, comfort is a matter of perception. Minorities are already revolting.

That aside, in the case of an economic collapse, nobody will be living comfortably. So, whatever dynamic you think is in play now will be gone. Including your false sense of security that your baseball bat will protect you.

America is no different than any other nation that is big and tries to subjugate a diverse people to a rule of singular mindset. They all eventually collapse and divide up.

Hopefully, it happens peacefully. Like the UK did after the 1800s. If not, it will be violently.

As far as being taken over by another country, possibly. Although our individual states are better armed than most countries. And you keep operating under the assumption that most of the armed forces will follow the federal government. Which, is doubtful.

Further, in the case of an economic collapse, China and Russia will have their own problems to deal with. China's financial capability is almost entirely dependent on us. Russia's is almost entirely dependent on China.

Without us, China won't have the means to have their energy needs met by Russia. So, there is as much chance that they will start fighting each other as us.

And, if they didn't? Given that we are pretty much the police force of the planet, there are far softer targets they could go after.

Sooner or later, a new government(s) would form here and things would stabilize.

 

[gjscott]

So, basically, your second post contradicted your first.

lol I posted that in the wrong thread.

There's no contradiction, in fact there's actually no connection to the thread title. That event where someone is shot and killed is a normal minute in a normal day in the USA

First, comfort is a matter of perception. Minorities are already revolting.

That aside, in the case of an economic collapse, nobody will be living comfortably. So, whatever dynamic you think is in play now will be gone. Including your false sense of security that your baseball bat will protect you.

I'm sure your little gun collection will keep the pillaging hordes at bay for a few more minutes than my baseball bat.
Lucky you.

America is no different than any other nation that is big and tries to subjugate a diverse people to a rule of singular mindset. They all eventually collapse and divide up.

Hopefully, it happens peacefully. Like the UK did after the 1800s. If not, it will be violently.

As far as being taken over by another country, possibly. Although our individual states are better armed than most countries. And you keep operating under the assumption that most of the armed forces will follow the federal government. Which, is doubtful.

Further, in the case of an economic collapse, China and Russia will have their own problems to deal with. China's financial capability is almost entirely dependent on us. Russia's is almost entirely dependent on China.

Without us, China won't have the means to have their energy needs met by Russia. So, there is as much chance that they will start fighting each other as us.

And, if they didn't? Given that we are pretty much the police force of the planet, there are far softer targets they could go after.

Sooner or later, a new government(s) would form here and things would stabilize.

Chinese and Russian business may may suffer from a USA collapse, but they will survive without too much difficulty just as they did a long before there was any trade with the USA. And they will watch.
China has started the takeover already buying up a lot of real estate.

A divided America will be a weak America.

But I'm sure you have the revolution all planned out already.

 

[TJinPgh]

lol I posted that in the wrong thread.

There's no contradiction, in fact there's actually no connection to the thread title. That event where someone is shot and killed is a normal minute in a normal day in the USA

I assumed you posted it in the wrong thread. It is still an example of revolt against authority, however. Unless you believe the cop was shot by accident.

I'm sure your little gun collection will keep the pillaging hordes at bay for a few more minutes than my baseball bat.
Lucky you.

It wil keep them at bay long enough to pack my stuff and get out.

Chinese and Russian business may may suffer from a USA collapse, but they will survive without too much difficulty just as they did a long before there was any trade with the USA. And they will watch.
China has started the takeover already buying up a lot of real estate.

They are buying real estate because it's the only way they can recover some of the debt we owe them. They flip most of it.

A divided America will be a weak America.

I would agree, if we were a unified America to begin with. We aren't, and haven't been for a long, long time.

Now, the weak dependent part is dragging the rest down.

The only thing wrong with Romney's "47%" comment four years ago was that his estimate was probably too low.

But I'm sure you have the revolution all planned out already.

Nope. I don't plan to participate unless I am given now choice.

Frankly, you should be agreeing with me. As far as I am concerned, this country is no longer either worth or even capable of being saved. Much like your views of the constitution, let it burn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfr2F8F1xms

 

[RecoilRob]

If 'it' happens, the major cities (loaded with barely controlled welfare hoards) will burn, and we here in the sticks will probably be fine as we're highly armed and will keep the roaming hoards from burning down our stuff. Many people wouldn't believe how highly armed this part of the country is. And for some weird reason, people in SW PA don't take kindly to tirants and such. I can see where the French & Indian war started from my front yard and ride past Washingtons Ft Necessity almost every ride up in the mountains so we come from a long line of malcontents. This would be a great place to be if there was an insurrection.

I picture it happening mostly down in DC where the current corrupt administration and all their flunkies are surrounded and removed from power. Of course they won't go down without a fight....and for a bit it will be ugly. Remember when the tanks rolled into the Kremlin a few decades back? Something like that here would be good. So first...we've got to find us some tanks!!

 

[TJinPgh]

Remember when the tanks rolled into the Kremlin a few decades back? Something like that here would be good. So first...we've got to find us some tanks!!

As I have said before, there is an assertion among the left that the military will be on the side of the government.

When you consider the problems that certain presidents have had maintaining enlistments as well as the reaction that some are having to the prospect of a president Trump, there is no reason to believe that.

If Benghazi proves nothing else, it's that our men in uniform are capable of thinking for themselves and defending what's right over what's ordered.

And, if they aren't, our "little placebo guns" as they have been called in the other thread are certainly sufficient to get effective bigger ones.

 

[Digasi]

As I have said before, there is an assertion among the left that the military will be on the side of the government.

When you consider the problems that certain presidents have had maintaining enlistments as well as the reaction that some are having to the prospect of a president Trump, there is no reason to believe that.

If Benghazi proves nothing else, it's that our men in uniform are capable of thinking for themselves and defending what's right over what's ordered.

And, if they aren't, our "little placebo guns" as they have been called in the other thread are certainly sufficient to get effective bigger ones.

Not all the military is for the left or for the policies they want to force on everyone. So the assertion that they will be on the side of the government is a little far fetched. More reasonable one would be a military that is fractured.

Of course they could always do what the Roman Army did and just sit it out and let Rome burn.

 

[Fatass SVS]

If 'it' happens, the major cities (loaded with barely controlled welfare hoards)

I assume you pejoratively meant "hordes?"

 

[PriestTheRunner]

Personally, I think it is pretty darn likely to occur in my lifetime. However, I envision it being primarily a states-vs-states issue and relatively non-violent (compared to the past). I think it will boil down to economics and economic "warfare" as well as political restructuring. Probably wind up breaking the country into 4-8 smaller countries, each separately independent of one another.

The interesting bit would be to see where the lines get drawn.

I hope Texas doesn't get sucked into Mexico. Too many people here already who refuse to call themselves American or Texas, and instead only call themselves Mexican (despite being fully legalized citizens who care here willingly...)

 

[Digasi]

Personally, I think it is pretty darn likely to occur in my lifetime. However, I envision it being primarily a states-vs-states issue and relatively non-violent (compared to the past). I think it will boil down to economics and economic "warfare" as well as political restructuring. Probably wind up breaking the country into 4-8 smaller countries, each separately independent of one another.

The interesting bit would be to see where the lines get drawn.

I hope Texas doesn't get sucked into Mexico. Too many people here already who refuse to call themselves American or Texas, and instead only call themselves Mexican (despite being fully legalized citizens who care here willingly...)

That is one way I see it. The only problem is that requires those in charge to be willing to let people have a choice. That is kind of at one of the heart of the problems that will cause a civil war. I guess would the US use force to remove a state's/individual's freedom to choose?

Yah, my optimism is at a low lately given the direction my state has chosen to go.

 

[PriestTheRunner]

That is one way I see it. The only problem is that requires those in charge to be willing to let people have a choice. That is kind of at one of the heart of the problems that will cause a civil war. I guess would the US use force to remove a state's/individual's freedom to choose?

Yah, my optimism is at a low lately given the direction my state has chosen to go.

I image it being the states being against the federal government, from all sides, and as such the 'people in charge' won't have a say in it. Local politicians are (slightly) less corrupt than federal-level politicians.

I bet the US would try to capitalize on the military but no one is going to fight for them. More likely the military would fracture with core groups representing separate interests. But I don't think any of those guys would be down for shooting at other Americans, even if we did have a fractured nation.

Not sure what you meant by referencing Ohio?...

 

[Digasi]

I image it being the states being against the federal government, from all sides, and as such the 'people in charge' won't have a say in it. Local politicians are (slightly) less corrupt than federal-level politicians.

I bet the US would try to capitalize on the military but no one is going to fight for them. More likely the military would fracture with core groups representing separate interests. But I don't think any of those guys would be down for shooting at other Americans, even if we did have a fractured nation.

Not sure what you meant by referencing Ohio?...

I was referencing Oregon.

Here the party that has the majority and governor's seat has hijacked the emergency clause to remove the people's right to vote on issues and has used a "Budget Cycle" to force their agenda through (all marked as emergency of course). Basically they don't want the people to choose the path, they want to force their choice.

 

[PriestTheRunner]

I was referencing Oregon.

Here the party that has the majority and governor's seat has hijacked the emergency clause to remove the people's right to vote on issues and has used a "Budget Cycle" to force their agenda through (all marked as emergency of course). Basically they don't want the people to choose the path, they want to force their choice.

DOH! Misread your location.

Thats total BS. If they tried something like that in Texas, we would storm Austin lol.

 

[Digasi]

DOH! Misread your location.

Thats total BS. If they tried something like that in Texas, we would storm Austin lol.

Even worse when you realize we didn't elect our governor, she was appoint by the rules of who is next in line, because the incumbent governor choose to resign after he won the election. The bill centered around that resignation was still passed (under the emergency clause of course).

It is an ethical mess over here. Sadly doesn't even stop there. Yah my trust in the government is at a low.

 

[TJinPgh]

All I know is that right now both parties are in full panic mode, although the Democrats are doing a better job of covering it up.

Trump may well have been the final wedge for a Republican party that hasn't represented it's core voters for years, but are rather content to be big government power mongers like their DNC counterparts.

The DNC faces a similar problem, despite the media's willingness to cover it up. The DNC's base is moving further left, while the DNC, itself, remains firmly tethered to the corporate trough.

The 2012 presumption that Obama was going to lose put them in a position where they failed to elevate a replacement. Leaving them with the highly flawed, woefully unpopular Hillary Clinton. Whom the far left despise as the big money corporate wonk that she is.

Union MEMBERS have been migrating to the Republican party for years. In 2012, huge numbers of energy sector workers abandoned Obama in favor of Romney. And, there are signs that they are willing to do it again for Trump.

A number of insiders are leaving the party for the Green party, that appears to be even more anti-big business than the DNC claims to be.

Voter turnout at the DNC primaries is extremely low right now.

"Blue Dog" Democrats are scared to death that a President Clinton would appoint judges that might go after the second amendment. If she doesn't appoint judges that go after Citizens United, the party is screwed. If she does appoint judges that go after Citizens United, the party is screwed.

Both of these parties have ignored the constitution or even their own base for so long that they are pretty much screwed no matter what they do now.

 

[RecoilRob]

Very nice summation! This is going to get VERY interesting and we here in PA might actually get to vote this time...ever since I've been voting (since Reagan) the nomination has been all locked up well before the circus gets here to PA. It's actually fun to watch the Republican Party panic as an 'outsider' is leading, and the next in line is also someone despised by those at the head of the Party. Neither is likely to be controlled, and this has them planning all kinds of subterfuge to deny the nomination to someone out of their orbit.

What has me a bit concerned is the sincerity of Trump. I remember well Bill Clinton's first run and it was facilitated by Ross Perot splitting the opposition vote....and in the end it wouldn't surprise me if Trump had been put up by the Clintons to do the same thing this time. Only hope we have is that he sees that he CAN win the election...and becomes himself rather than a plant...thus screwing over BOTH parties! That would be wonderful.

Have you noticed that Cruze does really well in a closed primary while Trump does his best in the 'open' (where anyone can vote-thus allowing cross-over Dems who historically try to sway elections by picking the candidate they want to run against)? The upcoming contests are mostly 'closed' so we'll see how this works. If you look at the total votes cast the Dems are crapping major bricks as turnout is really low, so unless the majority of them are crossing over for Trump trying to play games with the process...they're in trouble in the Fall. That is, of course, if the election is counted fairly...and that's another big quesion mark. I just can't see Clinton winning a fair election..but that doesn't mean it won't happen, and might be the catalyst needed to get the tanks moving.

 

[bighammer]

Somebody say revolution? :ears:

 

[SD 650S]

The United States is pretty safe from any type of outward invasion from Russia or China. Neither country has a military force large enough or well equipped enough to do such a thing. One of the great things about American history, is that we are too far away to be invaded. At least not with a force large enough to take over this country, even in the unlikely event of a civil war.

Even if they tried, mutually assured destruction from our submarine ballistic fleet guarantees this. We have enough nuclear weapons floating around in the ocean to destroy the world over several times.

Unless you expect Mexico or Canada to invade? The number 1 threat to the United States is itself.

However, the majority of the country people do not believe in extremes of right or left. Most people are in the middle. You don't have enough people who disagree with each other to the extreme enough to actually have this happen. Of course you can have the occasional riot by the left or Bundy style land grab by the right, but nothing of Civil War levels.

That's not to say I don't have a bug-out bag with my Remington 870 Magpul or my Colt M4 5.56 in easy access. Just in case

 

[Salty Sway]

Has anything changed in the last four years?