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Hello my fellow SVer's

When I first bought my SVS I simply thought I had to hang off the bars to get it to go around a corner, it definitely wasn't as easy to drop into a corner as my CBR was. So I got used to it and eventually did the handle bar conversion thing. Even after that with wide bars its still hard work.

I rode my friends Bandit on the weekend. Hours of fun just lightly dropping the Bandy into the twisties. Now it's got me thinking, is it just me or is there something wrong with the bikes set up, or tyres(Michelin Sportmax)? Or is that just how SV's are?


Many thanks, Blue Cheese.
 

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When my SVS was stock, it didn't feel very agile. My busa could initiate a turn with much less effort. It took suspension and ergonomic mods to get my SVS to handle like a sportbike.
 

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Welcome to SVR Blue Cheese.

While not touching on how suspensions differ from bikes, which I am sure will head in this direction, you should definitely have the front end checked, ie.. tire pressure, tire alignment, tweaking of the forks and the height of each fork thru the top clamps/plate.

We also have workshop areas that you can post in that could turn out to be more attentive.
 

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How square are your tires? New tires with a round profile always shock me with the difference.
 

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very big dumb
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couple thoughts:
1) tire pressure: a few psi low makes life a bit um difficult. street tire pressures are 33 front 36 rear (that's the sticker on your swingarm)
2) ergonomics/countersteering: If you're fighting yourself, you make it harder to turn-in. make sure your elbows are down and loose and that you're not fighting yourself. lots of articles and posts on it. If you have any weight whatsoever on your arms it's hard to turn as well.
3) other weirdness: something could be off with your bike. you're probably the first person ever to say it's hard to turn an sv.
is your head nut too tight? do you have a steering damper? are your tires square? does the rear have a lowering link? is there something fighting you in the suspension (broken/loose/tight/underdampened)? alignment?
 

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I noticed my '07 naked SV didn't tip with the same ease as my other bikes with handlebars...

On My GS500, DRZ400sm, and Multistrada, I'd barely have to touch the bar and they'd start to turn/lean. Very intuitive, like riding a bicycle, and very stable. With these bikes, turning requires more of a gentle and intuitive push "down" on the bar, rather than a conscious and delibrate push "forward" counter steering effort. The SV definitely did NOT feel like that.

My ZX-10R tips in very quickly but requires a different technique. Nudging on the clip-ons lightly doesn't do much. I'd have to shift my body weight to start the lean, then the bike turns in sharply. With my naked SV, I found it turned better this way too, i.e., not as responsive with just a push on the bar, and needed a bit more body position shifting to initiate the lean.
 

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very big dumb
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I noticed my '07 naked SV didn't tip with the same ease as my other bikes with handlebars...

On My GS500, DRZ400sm, and Multistrada, I'd barely have to touch the bar and they'd start to turn/lean. Very intuitive, like riding a bicycle, and very stable. With these bikes, turning requires more of a gentle and intuitive push "down" on the bar, rather than a conscious and delibrate push "forward" counter steering effort. The SV definitely did NOT feel like that.

My ZX-10R tips in very quickly but requires a different technique. Nudging on the clip-ons lightly doesn't do much. I'd have to shift my body weight to start the lean, then the bike turns in sharply. With my naked SV, I found it turned better this way too, i.e., not as responsive with just a push on the bar, and needed a bit more body position shifting to initiate the lean.
What you're describing is a problem with ergonomics. There is no such thing as pushing down to turn nor is there body steering.
There is only one way to turn a motorcycle and that is countersteering (pushing forward on the handlebar on the side you want to turn to).

Everything else you described is motions that result in some countersteering but with a bunch of extra forces that do nothing for turning the bike tossed in (some may even interfere). The reason it seems like different bikes require a different technique is because the way you sit on them you can't seem to get the countersteering bit as easily. Sure some are lighter and some heavier, but the physics don't change. you never push down on the bar and you never HAVE to shift your weight
 

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What you're describing is a problem with ergonomics.
This part I agree with you. Isn't it curious that a naked SV, even with a handlebar, has such a different feel from the other bikes I described? Do you know how they're different ergonomically?

The rest of counter-steering stuff...yes, you're right; you can read all that in the books. I wasn't trying to describe the physics of counter-steering nor argue against it; rather, I was trying to describe how different bikes "feel", most likely due to the the different ergo.
 

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very big dumb
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This part I agree with you. Isn't it curious that a naked SV, even with a handlebar, has such a different feel from the other bikes I described? Do you know how they're different ergonomically?

The rest of counter-steering stuff...yes, you're right; you can read all that in the books. I wasn't trying to describe the physics of counter-steering nor argue against it; rather, I was trying to describe how different bikes "feel", most likely due to the the different ergo.
there's a concept called something like "rider's triangle"
where your feet, hands, and butt are. depending on that it makes it easier harder w/e to turn.
check out this tool and compare your bikes ;)
http://cycle-ergo.com/

my guess is sv and the zx the main difference is how much lower you are on the zx.
the strada and dr are much more upright and you're closer to the bars i think. also those have different wheel sizes so different rake trail etc.
 

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there's a concept called something like "rider's triangle" .
and related to that is body position, one of the most interesting thing to experiment with IMO. When people say there is no such thing as body steering, try that on a dirtbike or a SM on which you can feel the suspension responding to very subtle shifting of body position (fore/aft/sideways) and taking a different set before any deliberate steering input from the arms. It’s like that with any bike, but a lot easier to feel on a light-weight bike with soft, long-travel suspension. It doesn’t replace steering input by the arms, but it definitely compliments it.


my guess is sv and the zx the main difference is how much lower you are on the zx.
the strada and dr are much more upright and you're closer to the bars i think. also those have different wheel sizes so different rake trail etc.
The DRZ’s dirtbike ergo sit you very close to the bar, with your elbows bent and lined up wide on the sides of the body. On the Multistrada the bar isn’t quite that close but it’s just as wide as the DRZ, and its ergo feel like a big DRZ to me. On the GS500 I think it’s the bar height (rather than the closeness or width) that makes it turn easily with a light nudge.

I was saying when initiating the turn the SV feels more like the 10R than the GS/DRZ/Multi, even though the SV’s got a handlebar. I don’t have measurements, but the SV’s bar feels relatively lower and more forward, so I’d have to lean forward more to bend the elbows, making the way it turns feels more like (but not exactly either) a sportbike.
 
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