How To: LED Fuel and Idiot Lights.
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Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
Well, I'm in Toronto, so I went to Supremetronic, which is awesome. That's also where I got the ultra-bright LEDs, the current limiting resistors, some perfboard, the 7.5 ohm 20W load resistors to make my LED turn signals flash at the right rate, and a pair of 6A diodes for wiring my headlights so the low beam stays on when the hi comes on.
If you don't have an electronics shop handy, digikey is your friend.
Well, I'm in Toronto, so I went to Supremetronic, which is awesome. That's also where I got the ultra-bright LEDs, the current limiting resistors, some perfboard, the 7.5 ohm 20W load resistors to make my LED turn signals flash at the right rate, and a pair of 6A diodes for wiring my headlights so the low beam stays on when the hi comes on.
If you don't have an electronics shop handy, digikey is your friend.
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Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
Electrosport sent me a new gauge. It didn't work any better though. They had me move the tach though. Now it is just wrapped around the spark plug wire nearest the rear plug as possible and actually is working pretty well, so far.
The speedometer though goes wacky at around 40-50mph. It will start reading anywhere from 60-115mph at that point. I removed all of the factory speedometer wire and the inner spinning piece from the OEM pickup but it didn't help. I think I may try stiffening my bracket to see if that helps. Otherwise I'll be calling Electrosport again on Monday.
I've got an idea for getting one of the LED's on the Acewell gauge working for gas though!
Use a relay in place of the LED in Syscrush's diagram. Hook the wire from the thermistor to 85. Hook 12v to 87a and 86. Hook the hazard LED from the Acewell to 30. Hook 85 and 86 together with the 47ohm resistor.
Then when the thermistor heats up it will energize the relay and send 12v to the hazard LED.
Electrosport sent me a new gauge. It didn't work any better though. They had me move the tach though. Now it is just wrapped around the spark plug wire nearest the rear plug as possible and actually is working pretty well, so far.
The speedometer though goes wacky at around 40-50mph. It will start reading anywhere from 60-115mph at that point. I removed all of the factory speedometer wire and the inner spinning piece from the OEM pickup but it didn't help. I think I may try stiffening my bracket to see if that helps. Otherwise I'll be calling Electrosport again on Monday.
I've got an idea for getting one of the LED's on the Acewell gauge working for gas though!
Use a relay in place of the LED in Syscrush's diagram. Hook the wire from the thermistor to 85. Hook 12v to 87a and 86. Hook the hazard LED from the Acewell to 30. Hook 85 and 86 together with the 47ohm resistor.
Then when the thermistor heats up it will energize the relay and send 12v to the hazard LED.
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5,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
OK, I had a PM requesting a bit more info, so I thought I might as well provide it here where it's available as wisdom for the ages.
I had hoped that I could look up all of the necessary parts on Digi-Key, but I'm not enough of an expert to be sure that the parts I look up there are actually correct, so instead I'll just share what I did and maybe someone with more specific knowledge can step up and provide some links to parts.
Also, this stuff is cheap - if there are folks out there who want the same setup, I'd be happy to put together a little kit of pieces from my local electronics shop. The kit would include:
1) Ultra-bright 3V 20mA white LED.
2) A holder for the LED.
3) 47 ohm 5W ceramic power resistor (the load resistor).
4) 470 ohm metal film resistor (the current-limiting resistor).
Cost would be somewhere in the range of $5 as I recall the prices of those things. Plus shipping, of course. I don't intend to put together a bunch of these and pricing would not include any profit for me - just happy to help out a few others who want to take this same approach for whatever reason.
If you want to pick the parts on your own, it works as follows:
1) Use that same 47 ohm 5W load resistor in any case.
2) Pick your LED. It will have 2 properties that matter to us, the forward voltage, and the current. In my case, it's 3V, 20mA.
3) Calculate the current-limiting resistor's value as follows:
3.1) Voltage drop = 12V - LED voltage = 12V - 3V = 9V.
3.2) Current = 0.02A
3.3) By ohm's law, 9V / 0.02A = 450 ohms. Round up to the nearest available value = 470 ohms.
3.5) Power = 9V x 0.02A = 0.18W. Round up to the nearest available value, I think mine are 0.5W.
4) Wire it according to the diagram I showed above - the current limiting resistor goes in series with the LED, while those two together go in parallel with the load resistor. That whole assembly gets wired in series with the thermistor you want driving the LED (either the high-level "get gas soon" or low-level "get gas NOW!" sensor).
I'm trying to get my whole dash together this weekend, I'll update here soon with pics of my test rig and the progress of the finished product.
OK, I had a PM requesting a bit more info, so I thought I might as well provide it here where it's available as wisdom for the ages.
I had hoped that I could look up all of the necessary parts on Digi-Key, but I'm not enough of an expert to be sure that the parts I look up there are actually correct, so instead I'll just share what I did and maybe someone with more specific knowledge can step up and provide some links to parts.Also, this stuff is cheap - if there are folks out there who want the same setup, I'd be happy to put together a little kit of pieces from my local electronics shop. The kit would include:
1) Ultra-bright 3V 20mA white LED.
2) A holder for the LED.
3) 47 ohm 5W ceramic power resistor (the load resistor).
4) 470 ohm metal film resistor (the current-limiting resistor).
Cost would be somewhere in the range of $5 as I recall the prices of those things. Plus shipping, of course. I don't intend to put together a bunch of these and pricing would not include any profit for me - just happy to help out a few others who want to take this same approach for whatever reason.
If you want to pick the parts on your own, it works as follows:
1) Use that same 47 ohm 5W load resistor in any case.
2) Pick your LED. It will have 2 properties that matter to us, the forward voltage, and the current. In my case, it's 3V, 20mA.
3) Calculate the current-limiting resistor's value as follows:
3.1) Voltage drop = 12V - LED voltage = 12V - 3V = 9V.
3.2) Current = 0.02A
3.3) By ohm's law, 9V / 0.02A = 450 ohms. Round up to the nearest available value = 470 ohms.
3.5) Power = 9V x 0.02A = 0.18W. Round up to the nearest available value, I think mine are 0.5W.
4) Wire it according to the diagram I showed above - the current limiting resistor goes in series with the LED, while those two together go in parallel with the load resistor. That whole assembly gets wired in series with the thermistor you want driving the LED (either the high-level "get gas soon" or low-level "get gas NOW!" sensor).
I'm trying to get my whole dash together this weekend, I'll update here soon with pics of my test rig and the progress of the finished product.
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Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
And you have tested that this works?
And you have tested that this works?
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5,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
EDITED to fix probs with the pics not consistently showing up correctly
Some photos of the work in progress:
My test rig. Not pretty, but it worked beautifully:
![]()
LED's wired up and soldered. If I had been thinking things through better, I would have a bit fewer wires. The Fuel & High Beam lights share a ground, and the other 3 (Neutral, Oil, and Temp) share the +12V. Oh well:
![]()
After applying some shrink tube:
![]()
And mounting in my project box (and wired to a 9-pin Molex connector - again, if I was thinking better, I could have used a 6-pin unit):
![]()
And the most stressful stage - the project box filled with potting compound:
![]()
I was stressed as hell pouring in the potting compound for a few reasons - I was using polyester resin (couldn't find a local source for bona-fide potting compound), and wasn't sure if it would react badly with the electronics or plastics, or if it would overheat when curing such a large thick quantity. But I wanted to do this because now I've got a cluster of idiot lights that I could hit with a hammer and not break anything. Stress now for peace of mind later! The resin seems to have worked fine, I just bought the Bondo brand fiberglass resin you can get at any auto shop.
How it looks from the top:
![]()
Astute readers may notice that the arrangement of LEDs closely coincides with the arrangement in the stock idiot light cluster. Well, guess what - there's a reason! I've cut the stock cluster out of the stock dash and I'll be placing it over this light unit and mounting it in my custom dash. I'm using a pair of green LEDs mounted straight in the dash for separate left & right turn signals, so I've mounted the temperature light in the turn signal spot. Hopefully I'll find the will at some point to make up an appropriate temp gauge graphic to replace the turn signal graphic currently on that lens.
More pics to follow as I get more done. I'll also post some info about wiring once I've validated that I actually got all of the wires right.
Right now, my biggest concern is that these suckers are maybe too bright. I'm thinking that I may end up inserting some kind of tint or shade between the LED's and the lenses to keep from blinding myself as I ride along.
EDITED to fix probs with the pics not consistently showing up correctly
Some photos of the work in progress:
My test rig. Not pretty, but it worked beautifully:
LED's wired up and soldered. If I had been thinking things through better, I would have a bit fewer wires. The Fuel & High Beam lights share a ground, and the other 3 (Neutral, Oil, and Temp) share the +12V. Oh well:
After applying some shrink tube:
And mounting in my project box (and wired to a 9-pin Molex connector - again, if I was thinking better, I could have used a 6-pin unit):
And the most stressful stage - the project box filled with potting compound:
I was stressed as hell pouring in the potting compound for a few reasons - I was using polyester resin (couldn't find a local source for bona-fide potting compound), and wasn't sure if it would react badly with the electronics or plastics, or if it would overheat when curing such a large thick quantity. But I wanted to do this because now I've got a cluster of idiot lights that I could hit with a hammer and not break anything. Stress now for peace of mind later! The resin seems to have worked fine, I just bought the Bondo brand fiberglass resin you can get at any auto shop.
How it looks from the top:
Astute readers may notice that the arrangement of LEDs closely coincides with the arrangement in the stock idiot light cluster. Well, guess what - there's a reason!
I've cut the stock cluster out of the stock dash and I'll be placing it over this light unit and mounting it in my custom dash. I'm using a pair of green LEDs mounted straight in the dash for separate left & right turn signals, so I've mounted the temperature light in the turn signal spot. Hopefully I'll find the will at some point to make up an appropriate temp gauge graphic to replace the turn signal graphic currently on that lens.More pics to follow as I get more done. I'll also post some info about wiring once I've validated that I actually got all of the wires right.
Right now, my biggest concern is that these suckers are maybe too bright.
I'm thinking that I may end up inserting some kind of tint or shade between the LED's and the lenses to keep from blinding myself as I ride along.
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5,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
Luckily I can fix it up with a bit of hacking on the wiring harness. Still, it was a silly mistake, and I wanted to point it out before someone else caught on... Full details along with finished pics tomorrow, hopefully.
Good night,
My mistake - as you can see if you consult the crappy wiring diagram from the first page, the Fuel light should NOT share a ground with the High Beam light (or any others). Wow - sure am glad that all that wiring is now encased in cured polyester resin. :-[Syscrush said:
Luckily I can fix it up with a bit of hacking on the wiring harness. Still, it was a silly mistake, and I wanted to point it out before someone else caught on... Full details along with finished pics tomorrow, hopefully.
Good night,
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5,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
OK, sorry, no pics yet... Got the mini-dash fabbed up, but I can't mount it right now because the ratchet straps holding the front end in the air are in the way. I'm not sure about how it'll actually look beside the Veypor, that Veypor is a bitch to mount with all the stuff I've got in the front now. I might have to buy some other RAM hardware at some point. Or get even more aggressive with the grinder.
One observation for anyone considering switching to LED indicator lights... Think twice about using "extra bright" LED's. Holy god they're bright - too bright. For the 5 LED's going behind the stock idiot light lenses, I ended up roughing them up with some 150 grit paper to make the light a bit more diffuse, then shooting a layer of Dupli-color grey scratch-filling primer over them, and now I can look at them without a sense of immediate blindness.
I have 2 green ones mounted directly in the dash for left & right turn signals, and I will be putting a pretty serious resistor in place to bring the brightness down to a workable level. Today I picked up a 2k variable resistor, and even with that maxed out and in series with TWO 470 ohm units, the light was still too bright. I'll continue experimenting and reporting findings.
Take it easy,
OK, sorry, no pics yet... Got the mini-dash fabbed up, but I can't mount it right now because the ratchet straps holding the front end in the air are in the way. I'm not sure about how it'll actually look beside the Veypor, that Veypor is a bitch to mount with all the stuff I've got in the front now. I might have to buy some other RAM hardware at some point. Or get even more aggressive with the grinder.
One observation for anyone considering switching to LED indicator lights... Think twice about using "extra bright" LED's. Holy god they're bright - too bright. For the 5 LED's going behind the stock idiot light lenses, I ended up roughing them up with some 150 grit paper to make the light a bit more diffuse, then shooting a layer of Dupli-color grey scratch-filling primer over them, and now I can look at them without a sense of immediate blindness.
I have 2 green ones mounted directly in the dash for left & right turn signals, and I will be putting a pretty serious resistor in place to bring the brightness down to a workable level. Today I picked up a 2k variable resistor, and even with that maxed out and in series with TWO 470 ohm units, the light was still too bright. I'll continue experimenting and reporting findings.
Take it easy,
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864 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
WooHoo! The 47 ohm resistor worked like a charm! The red/blk wire is the you need gas. The black/green wire is the you really need gas.
Now to figure out if there is a way to make this talk to an Acewell or if I'll need to add an LED to my naked before I sell it.
WooHoo! The 47 ohm resistor worked like a charm! The red/blk wire is the you need gas. The black/green wire is the you really need gas.
Now to figure out if there is a way to make this talk to an Acewell or if I'll need to add an LED to my naked before I sell it.
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Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
where did you get the resistors? i need to wire mine up...
where did you get the resistors? i need to wire mine up...
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864 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
alliedelec.com
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=895-4263&R=895-4263&sid=463926006C1F617F
I bought 10 of them. I only need 4 but for less than a dollar each I figured what the hell! I also bought an assortment of other resistors since at 5 cents a piece they are much cheaper than Radio Shack.
alliedelec.com
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=895-4263&R=895-4263&sid=463926006C1F617F
I bought 10 of them. I only need 4 but for less than a dollar each I figured what the hell! I also bought an assortment of other resistors since at 5 cents a piece they are much cheaper than Radio Shack.
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2,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
muchos gracias. :thumbsup:
muchos gracias. :thumbsup:
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5,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
Keep in mind that you will also need a current-limiting resistor in series with your LED. The spec for the 47 ohm load resistor does not depend on your LED, but the spec for the current-limiting resistor does. Have you picked an LED yet? When you do, let us know if you need help picking the right current-limiting resistor.KrooklynSV said:
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2,617 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
yeah, the PO already wired (or tried to at least) some existing LEDs, so i'll have to take a look and get the voltages off of it. don't worry...i'll still need ur guys' help!
yeah, the PO already wired (or tried to at least) some existing LEDs, so i'll have to take a look and get the voltages off of it. don't worry...i'll still need ur guys' help!
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864 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
Temperature?
I hadn't noticed before that there was a temp light on the schematics so I wired that into the dash I'm building. I'm almost done and will post pics when I'm done... but what is the correct operation of the temp LED?
When I turn the ignition on AND have the engine switch to off it is solid. When I flip the engine switch to on it starts blinking. When I start the bike it continunes blinking (I only let it run for a few seconds).
My original assumption was that the Temp LED would turn off when the bike started but it doesn't.
Based on the two different states with the engine switch my assumption now is that under normal operating temp it will blink and if it goes above that it will go solid.
Sound correct?
BTW - I've got it connected to O/G and B/G like in the schematics. I also have the Oil and Neutral lights connected to O/G; I didn't use any diodes since it doesn't list any between those.
The Oil and Neutral light behave properly.
______________________________
EDIT
______________________________
This hadn't occurred to me until after I posted but maybe the LED flashes until the bike is warmed up at which time it turns off. I guess I'll have to wait to find out, unless someone else here knows for sure
Temperature?
I hadn't noticed before that there was a temp light on the schematics so I wired that into the dash I'm building. I'm almost done and will post pics when I'm done... but what is the correct operation of the temp LED?
When I turn the ignition on AND have the engine switch to off it is solid. When I flip the engine switch to on it starts blinking. When I start the bike it continunes blinking (I only let it run for a few seconds).
My original assumption was that the Temp LED would turn off when the bike started but it doesn't.
Based on the two different states with the engine switch my assumption now is that under normal operating temp it will blink and if it goes above that it will go solid.
Sound correct?
BTW - I've got it connected to O/G and B/G like in the schematics. I also have the Oil and Neutral lights connected to O/G; I didn't use any diodes since it doesn't list any between those.
The Oil and Neutral light behave properly.
______________________________
EDIT
______________________________
This hadn't occurred to me until after I posted but maybe the LED flashes until the bike is warmed up at which time it turns off. I guess I'll have to wait to find out, unless someone else here knows for sure
Joined
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864 Posts
Re: Fuel and idiot lights, here's how!
This looks so much better than using the Veypor with the RAM mount!
I've got an acquaintance that owns a sign shop who is going to be making me some vinyl icons for it, as long as his machine has no problems doing them so small.
![]()
I used a 12 pin molex connector from Radio Shack to I can easily take it out.
When it's done, it should look something like this:
![]()
The orange LED in the upper left is the temperature indicator. When I made the dash panel I hadn't realized there was a light for that since in the schematics it's listed as an LED instead of as a bulb like everything else. I didn't do the high-beam because I didn't want an odd number of LED's! Too bad I didn't realize I could have had 8. Doh!
Turn signals are green, gas LED's are red.
BTW - I've got those icons in an EPS file if anyone wants them.
This looks so much better than using the Veypor with the RAM mount!
I've got an acquaintance that owns a sign shop who is going to be making me some vinyl icons for it, as long as his machine has no problems doing them so small.
I used a 12 pin molex connector from Radio Shack to I can easily take it out.
When it's done, it should look something like this:
The orange LED in the upper left is the temperature indicator. When I made the dash panel I hadn't realized there was a light for that since in the schematics it's listed as an LED instead of as a bulb like everything else. I didn't do the high-beam because I didn't want an odd number of LED's! Too bad I didn't realize I could have had 8. Doh!
Turn signals are green, gas LED's are red.
BTW - I've got those icons in an EPS file if anyone wants them.
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