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Discussion Starter #1
I am decided to go ahead and build up the SV motor over the winter. I have that habit to bring a motor in my living room, and work on it during cold week ends.


Anyway, I would like some feedback and tips, This will be my first motorcycle engine ( but my 5th overall). It all makes sense in my head, but it is my head....

I am looking to make a little bit more power for the street, maybe a track days here and there, but mostly street/commute. I am also re-updating my suspension and chassis.

Here it is:
- block < 5000mi.
Is there a best block? 1st gen or 2nd gen

- stock crank, lightened and balanced.
I know of a very competent machine shop for I4 cranks, hoping they can do a V. Same question: 1st or 2nd gen?

- H-beam rods, unsure of brand, there are plenty aftermarket.

- hayabusa pistons
Good alternative price vs. performance.

- cam swap. no need to talk about that.

- Upgraded carbs. Unsure yet, maybe just rejet would do here.

- New ignition, maybe beefed up.
Any good tips here?

- New OEM clutch



I think that is it, of course all new gaskets and hardware, bearings etc...


what do you all think?

Q
 
K

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ignition advace and coils and take one of the head gaskkets out theres 3 of em. things ivv herd
 

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Motorcycle engines are much different to work on than car engines. I may not matter to you if you are good at wrenching but for some it can be much more difficult.

Couple things...

Block, no real "block" but you have engine cases which also house the transmission, if you uncomfortable working with the tranny don't split the cases, this is something you have to do to get to the bottom end. As for which is better, all the same in my opinion.

Crank, haven't heard to many good things about lightening ( or knife-edging), a precision balancing of all rotating parts is always good though. A billet crank would be overkill for a street motor, but the only legitamite upgrade you can make to the crank, oh BIG $$$$.

Rods, H-bean are going to be overkill like the crank and almost as expensive. An upgrade is a good idea if you are pushing large pistons around or running really high compression.

Pistons, busa are good, bigger/better are available. Power goes up, reliability goes down...unless you go crazy with crank and rods and $$$$.

Cams, you should consider it, easy/cheap power with intake cam swap (do a search it's been covered).

Carbs, flatsides if you have the $$$$, they make good power and trottle response is improved a lot. Jetting (on a dyno) is good enough for the limited investment.

Ignition, never heard of any problems with the stock stuff even on SV superbikes.

Clutch, you got it, oem all the way, or I have heard talk of good results from aluminium clutch plates, maybe not for the street though.

Bearing, how about ceramic bearings, in the motor and wheels, maybe not in a street bike.

Gaskets, like someone said above...head gaskets are three layers take one out, shit take out two. More compression for free.

Timing advance is another option, I have no experience with it but the majority of the folks who have like it, also cheap.


My opinion, if you want a good street motor...

remove one layer from the head gaskets, start running 93 octane
Jett the carbs with a professional doing the tuning on a dyno
swap the intake cams from an 03', swap your current intake cams for the exhaust.
Possibly a 700cc piston kit

I'm cheap though, and I like reliable motors you can abuse endlessly.

My $0.02, there are other folks around here who actually know what they are talking so don't listen to me :p
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dr. D

We are definitely on the same wave lenght. I am all about beating on my motors knowing they can take it.

I have no problem digging into tranny stuff, Since i recently reached 15K mi, an overall inspections and possible rebuild is always a good idea.

Good to know about the multi layer gaskets. I will probably remove a single one, since the busa pistons already raise compression a bit.

Since the crank is going to be stock and lighter, I think it is safer to go overkill with the rods. Of course, I'll have to do the usual FEA analysis (which has served me well on car engines)

also the big bore kits don't really appeal to me, they seem to lower reliability too much for the gains they produce. Maybe if i have some time and money left over after the rest, I'll look into it.

Q
 

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As far as I know, Busa pistons are the same size as stock, but they are lighter and stronger because they are forged instead of cast.

You say you want a streetable engine with more power. If you are really looking to have a street engine, then you probably shouldn't be worrying too much about making big power.

An ignition advancer will improve your low-end torque, which always helps with street riding. ($20-$30)

Intake/exhaust will give you a nice bump in power (if properly jetted) and should help nicely with engine response. ($500-1000)

The cam swap will also provide a nice bump in power, but will probably impact your gas mileage. ($200)

Since you seem intent on tearing apart your engine, I suggest focusing on lightening and strengthening. If you've got cash burning a hole in your pocket, switching to Ti bolts/fasteners (available through ducowners shop, $$$) and busa piston's should be able to significantly lighten your engine.

Once you've shed some lbs, hopefully from moving parts, getting the engine balanced would be great for reliability/longevity, and engine response. ($$$)

Again, if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, you could send your crank/rods/valves/valve springs out to get cryo-treated ($$$), which should improve reliability/longevity significantly. As somebody else said, a new crank and rods would be overkill for a street bike, and I think cryo-treatment is cheaper.

If you want to replace the clutch, there are slipper-clutches available through ducowner?s shop. ($$$)

For a street engine, flatsides are way overkill. Plus they have a serious impact on cold starting and gas mileage. And extra compression would just reduce the longevity of the engine. With intake/exhaust, cam swap, and jetting your looking at 75-80rwhp with significantly more area under the power curve then stock. Not to shabby.

It all adds up man. For a street engine, you should really be looking at how much money you want to spend, not how much power you want to make. The engine is a street gem straight from the factory. The money would probably be better spent on quality suspension (gixxer-swap and penske/elka) and tires then on making more power.
 

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I tend to disagree with the flat slide comment. I run them on my street bike. I have had no issues so far. I still get about the same mileage as before and for cold startup a few twists of the throttle to open that accel pump up and she fires right up. I think they are very streetable...and I think some manufactures did too since they came on some bikes.
ac
 

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hmmm.

I'm going to be tearing apart my engine this winter. At least I thikn I am. PRetty sure I have some oil leaking around my piston seals. I was going to try to replace them myself after I check the compression to be sure. I have been burning some serious oil the last 2 years.

As long as I'm doing this, is there anything I can do for cheap to increase the HP without risking grenading the engine?

Also.. anyone wanna predict the problems I'll have tearing into the engine (tools i'll need... things I'll probably break etc... ::) .
 

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I'll second the disagreement on flat slides. Jetted properly, I've even seen mileage go up on ducs I"ve worked on (and the old 2V ducs made very good mileage in stock form, if not great throttle response) Again, as said, the accel-pump excercize makes cold starts pretty easy.

Otoh, the stock carbs do a pretty good job and cost nothing. Jetting them right will get you about 90% of the benefit.

As for compression and oil burning, make sure it is piston rings before ripping them out and replacing. Get a leakdown test and check valveguides. Problem is more likely there anyway. How is oil burning? Consistent and even, or worse on startup.

Sure, do it if it needs it, but you can save some possibly unnecessary expenditures with a bit of homework first.

hth
roger
 

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rogsvr said:
As for compression and oil burning, make sure it is piston rings before ripping them out and replacing. Get a leakdown test and check valveguides. Problem is more likely there anyway. How is oil burning? Consistent and even, or worse on startup.

Sure, do it if it needs it, but you can save some possibly unnecessary expenditures with a bit of homework first.

hth
roger
hmm.. not sure when oil is burning. on hard accel (esp. at the track) smoke ocmes out of the pipe. after a hard track day i was down almost 1L :eek:

what's a leakdown test?? how do i check valveguides??
 

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Leak down is when you find top dead center and use an airline in the plug hole with the proper attached gauge setup and blow compressed air into the cylinder, the gauge measures pressure at the line going in and how much pressure remains on the other side giving you a percentage, usually I think you want to be within 10 percent of 100. LOL, did this on our sprint car two weeks ago on #6 cylinder and had 0 percent, turned out to be a hole in the piston.

Valve guides, not exactly sure but take exhaust off and look in the port and look at the stem of the valve, same on intake side only take nescessary parts off to see in the port and look at the valve stem, if it is overly oilly then you have problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I am probably NOT in favor of flatside carbs. I ride a lot in colder weathers (New England), so easy start is always a plus in the AM.

The bike is and will always be my daily commuter. That is the reason for the rebuilt. I want to clean and restore anything that may need it after the 15K mi. And while I am in there, might as well drop a few $$$ to make it peppier. I want to keep the overall build under $1K, including new cases, cams, pistons, rods and hardware.

Ti nuts and bolts were on my list under hardware. I have a good source for those at work.



my original question was:

- What year/gen has the most reliable engine cases? rods?

Q
 

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QfactorSV said:
I want to keep the overall build under $1K, including new cases, cams, pistons, rods and hardware.

my original question was:

- What year/gen has the most reliable engine cases? rods?

Q
I think keeping your project under $1K is gonna be close... cams alone are $200+

Gen1 & gen2 motors are the same. Neither are more reliable then the other.
The 2000 did have a recall with something about needing a restrictor plate to keep the oil around the pump though. If you use a 2000 you might wanna check that it has it.
 

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Why would you need new cases?

If you are trying to do a rebuild for $1000, you may be better off just buying a low milage motor from a bike that was crashed and maybe cams. With the parts list you have you are looking at roughly $1800-$2500, just in parts, depending on what you go with.

Good luck with what ever you decide, my experience has always been...

Make a budget...and then double it, you may come close.
 

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I personally can see going in and replacing bearings, pistons and rings, and some valvetrain stuff, but other then that I dont know, you could do your performance stuff along side of those three overall things I mentioned and run it. Like good ole Darrel Waltrip said one time "they took something that wasnt broke and fixed it till it was."
 
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