Rob, I mean this in the most respectful way but you need to spend more time learning what the pc actually does.
Thanks Rob. Exactly the info i was looking for. As i stated way back in the original post, i'm gonna do the undersized STV's to start because i like to tinker. great thing is i can remove, resize, whatever and then return to stock if i want.
This. Based on rpm and throttle position, the PC adjusts the injector pulse by a % you set. It's a 2D map. It isn't enough to determine overall fueling, it's just to tweak the ECU's fueling.Rob, I mean this in the most respectful way but you need to spend more time learning what the pc actually does.
Do you by chance have a TRE installed? If so, your experience here would lend credence to my thinking that the STV's are the primary thing/s that are altered when going from one gear to another. Mine would not open them up in 1st gear...not even close...and as a result you could give it pretty much a full handful of throttle and just barely lift the front end...maybe. With the STV's out...about 1/4 throttle has the front tire 3' in the air....so I don't believe they were programmed to open.I went ahead and pulled the STV plates out and then went for a ride thinking I would see some dramatic improvement in snappyness, torque, etc. I was underwhelmed to say the least. Virtually no difference in power, whether at part throttle or WOT. I detected a slight improvement in throttle response time, but that's it.
rob, maybe this will help...so I guess until someone comes up with something concrete saying otherwise I'm leading toward believing him.
Dobeck is saying the PC doesn't use the IAP sensor, and he's right. He is not saying that the ECU is ignoring the IAP sensor, though.just has me wondering if the IAP sensors are coming into play when the stock ECU is making use of them. Dobeck seems to be saying no.....so I guess until someone comes up with something concrete saying otherwise I'm leading toward believing him.
The guy in your link has the software and ability to edit individual aspects of the ECU maps directly. We can't do that for the SV...or at least the 650.The bog was happening when the ECU was running in SD mode...and wasn't making the changes shown on the map! Only when the fellow reflashed the internal SD map was the bog conquered.....so if this is all true, it fully explains why the PC isn't modding the fueling when in SD mode...because it can't!
Yea, JUST LIKE THE PC. Neither the PC or TEKA can edit the fuel parameters of an SD map and leave an AN map unchanged, nor can they affect whether the ECU elects to use SD vs AN mapping at any given moment. They both just add 10% fuel (or whatever number you chose to input) to everything at that throttle position and RPM, albeit by different methods.The TEKA WILL change the fueling across the board
Rob. It simply intercepts the signal into the fuel injector and modifies it by the % you enter, then outputs a new signal into the injector.I would really like to see something that explains HOW the PC can affect the SD map...beyond 'yes it does'.
OK, let me help you by using the 2 links you posted as well as a youtube linkI'm just trying to wrap my head around how something works, and say it does 'this and that' without anything to back it up really doesn't help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuBIAav8ktA skip to 230. He's using autotune to build a map and inserting the values he gets into the PC. Notice the AFR and idle improves as he does it. I can see it with my own eyes, and judging by the post count 12,000 other people have too.I saw (with my own eyes) the idle mixture and light throttle change with TEKA changes....and still have read nothing that says the PC can do the same. The guy who invented it says it can't.
Show me where he said that? All he said in your link was that PC is AN technology. It is YOU that is misinterpreting it to mean "the PC can only tune AN technology".The guy who invented it says it can't.
Yes, So what? That kind of advanced editing software isn't available to us SV riders.The Kawasaki guys had to reprogram the SD maps to do what the PC couldn't.
Are you even reading what you post??? The reprogrammer in the kawasaki thread you linked says in post #9 how a PC works. It doesn't rewrite the internal ECU code...it just intercepts the signal to the injector and modifies it...just like I have been saying.I would really like to see something that explains HOW the PC can affect the SD map...beyond 'yes it does'.
Do you by chance have a TRE installed? If so, your experience here would lend credence to my thinking that the STV's are the primary thing/s that are altered when going from one gear to another. Mine would not open them up in 1st gear...not even close...and as a result you could give it pretty much a full handful of throttle and just barely lift the front end...maybe. With the STV's out...about 1/4 throttle has the front tire 3' in the air....so I don't believe they were programmed to open.
Besides that, every closed throttle gearchange had a hesitation when going back to full throttle like the STV's were slower to open...again, once they were removed the power comes on instantly. This tuning might differ from year to year or CA to 49 State...I don't know.
And did you guys read the link I put up from Dobeck? You remember he's the guy who INVENTED the Power Commanders...and he says they aren't 'load sensitive'...so I'm tending to believe him. But...I asked the question because I really don't know, and trying to find that particular tidbit of information on the Web is proving to be a difficult task. Seeing as the CA version of PC's blanks out any adjustments below mid-revs, (where the SD function will be working) while the 'race' versions allow you to mess about with them....just has me wondering if the IAP sensors are coming into play when the stock ECU is making use of them. Dobeck seems to be saying no.....so I guess until someone comes up with something concrete saying otherwise I'm leading toward believing him.
I will attest that with the STV's out of an SV1000S, it did not become a wheelie monster for me. All my power wheelies have been off raw power throttle pulls being in the right gear at the right moment. IE low 2nd gear and wacking open. It does not happen ALL the time. Wheelies are very rare for me. Perhaps I'm just too fat for the bike, 185 lbs w/o gear.hmmm... yes i have one of steve's switchable TRE's installed. The issue i've got is that with STV's in or out, the power seems to be the same. full throttle, and the bike will barely lift the wheel as everyone else seems to indicate it should. i'll try to switch the TRE and see if it makes a difference, but what else would be limiting the power? As an indicator, it doesn't seem to be much quicker than my 99 honda VFR, even though it should have more torque and weighs less.
On the bars would be asking a lot...but a manual button to pull hidden inside the frame somewhere would be pretty simple to fab up. Something like this: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-HELP-55101-Choke-Conversion/dp/B000CO7CK0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1427252785&sr=8-5&keywords=manual+choke+cable[/ame] with the cable end attached to the Fast Idle cam lever so you could pull it forward a bit when you wanted it to idle faster. Would take a little ingenuity to do...but it could be made to work.I have a question for everyone who has gotten rid of STVs and fast idle. Is there a good way to add a fast idle lever? Sometimes it would be nice to be able to start the bike and have it idle without nursing the throttle. I suppose I could get an idle adjustment cable off something else that I could turn by hand rather than needing a screwdriver, but a fast idle cable on the handlebars would be nice.
Okay, the confusion was on my behalf. I wasn't aware the fast idle was due to the STV system. I currently only have the butterflies removed from the STV's, so my bike still fast idles on warm up to which I confused with running open loop. You are correct, with no O2 sensor closed loop isn't happening.When you say "open loop", what do you mean? With no O2 sensor, isn't it always open loop?
The 05 Ducati Monster 1000 has such a lever on the handle bars. I would imagine it could be rigged up to work on the SV?I suppose I could figure out a cable operated device to open the throttle a little bit when actuated. I know there are some EFI bikes with fast idle levers mounted on the bars (like chokes on many carb'd bikes).