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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone.

In true newb form, my first post is due to a starting problem. here is the situation:

Bike: 2004 SV650N, full yosh exhaust, K&N Filter, PC3 usb, GSXR 1K rear shock.

Was riding in a straight line after some modest (not extreme) pothole dodging/swerving, and the bike just shut off. No sputtering, no FI message. Bike would crank, but would not start. Added gas, just in case. Engine cranks, but still no start. Replaced battery with new fully charged AGM battery. Same issue.

I have a replacement tip over sensor arriving today, but I get the feeling that may not fix it. The bike ran great for 300+ miles since I got it. I have checked the following:

Replaced spark plugs, grounded both against engine while cranking (not at the same time), and spark appears to be good

Drained fuel and replaced with fresh gas, while draining fuel pump appeared to work well.

Once in a while the bike will fire for 1 or two revolutions, then stop.

Added starter fluid and bike starts for a few revolutions then dies.

No FI light. I ordered a tipover sensor because the voltage while it was held level were slightly out of tolerance per the service manual, and if I am not mistaken, the tip over sensor being bad would explain the symptoms.

I will be installing the sensor in a couple hours, and I will repost to let you know what happens. I'm just getting the sinking feeling that the tipover sensor will not fix the problem since when I hold it level there is no FI message, and when I hold it on its side the FI light comes on and it shows c23 in dealer mode, as if it is working.

Has anyone else had a tipover sensor fail without it causing a constant FI message?

I'll be back in a bit to report how the new sensor worked out, I'm just going crazy thinking about it and decided to ask the experts. The SV is actually my wife's bike, I ride a 2003 ZRX1200, and it is wonderfully simple as far as electronics.

Thanks for any input.

-Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Installed the new tip over sensor. Still cranks without starting. It does fire for a few revolutions and dies now, so it seems to have improved.

It ran for a few seconds after spraying starting fluid in the throttle bodies.

I can also smell raw fuel from the exhaust. I could not smell the raw fuel when cranking before the TOS swap.

I checked the plugs after a few attempts, and they are wet with fuel and have spark when grounded against the engine.

I'm going to wait a couple hours with the battery on a tender, then try again.

I adjusted the idle speed (throttle stop) back and forth a bit, there seems to be a little change, but not much.

Am I missing something obvious?

EDIT: I did consciously check that the kill switch was set to run, and the sidestand is down with the bike in neutral. The clutch switch is good, otherwise it would not turn over at all. Sigh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
the PC3 turns on while I'm cranking it and the line is 1 or two places below the "0" while cranking. Is there an easy way to unhook the PC3 to revert to factory settings just to eliminate that as a problem?

Oh, and the pigtail is correctly hooked up to the negative side of the new battery. I initially installed it on the positive terminal when I switched the battery on Tuesday, then realized my error and placed it on the negative side.

EDIT: Also, thank you for your response GC, I do appreciate it. My wife just got her MC license and is ready to ride, I just need to get her bike going
 

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Honestly I have no idea about the PC3, but I do know that cranking my old carbureted bike over with the throttle held open would help clear it if it was flooded. I've never had to try it on an FI bike, though. It does work on cars if that helps.

Or you could wait till the fuel evaporates.

Or disable the fuel injectors or fuel pump and crank it with the spark plugs out.
 

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If the sparkplugs be wet...you've got fuel. I'd try holding it WOT and see if it fires. Perhaps pull and dry the plugs to make it easier to get running.

If that fails, checking the fuel pressure might be in order. I know...it IS getting fuel, but if the pressure isn't up to spec the injectors spray a really putrid stream vs the nice vapor-like cloud they are supposed to. There have been a couple bikes have the fuel pressure regulator pop out of its' holder. They won't start when this happens even though you can hear the pump running...there won't be much pressure and certainly not enough to start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So....
I checked that the correct map was set on my pc3 and reset the throttle, just in case.

I dumped a small amount of gas down each throttle body, put the filter and airbox cover on, and it ran for about 5 or 6 seconds. So I think that confirms that even if it is getting fuel, it is not enough.

I'll check the volume the fuel pump puts out (the 10 second test, flow check maybe? I forget, and my manual is next to the bike).

It's just strange the way the problem began. The bike just shut off like the kill switch was engaged. In the past a fuel problem has always gotten gradually worse, but I guess my experience is with carbs and not FI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If the sparkplugs be wet...you've got fuel. I'd try holding it WOT and see if it fires. Perhaps pull and dry the plugs to make it easier to get running.

If that fails, checking the fuel pressure might be in order. I know...it IS getting fuel, but if the pressure isn't up to spec the injectors spray a really putrid stream vs the nice vapor-like cloud they are supposed to. There have been a couple bikes have the fuel pressure regulator pop out of its' holder. They won't start when this happens even though you can hear the pump running...there won't be much pressure and certainly not enough to start.
Also, is there a way to pop the regulator back in without removing the fuel pump? My guess is no, but I had to ask.

I'm giving up for the night, going to watch some netflix and fall asleep.

Thanks for the input guys, and hopefully I find something out as my troubleshooting continues.
 

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Be careful pouring liquids into the engine. You could hydrolock it. Also, raw fuel can wash down cylinder walls and cause you to lose compression, which will cause it to misfire even with fuel and spark.
 

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Also, is there a way to pop the regulator back in without removing the fuel pump? My guess is no, but I had to ask.
The regulator is plugged into the side of the filter which is part of the fuel pump module. So no, you have to have the pump in your hand to do it. The fuel volume test would be good to run. Have seen static pressure tests show the proper pressures but then they fail the volume test. If both are good you might have something else going on. Be systematic and you'll find it.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As I was sitting here obsessing about what could be going on with the bike and looking over the fuel flow test in my service manual, I realized that when I drained the fuel last week to put in fresh gas that the fuel flowed freely from the line even when the pump was not on.

Is it supposed to do that?

The test in the manual makes it sound like fuel is only supposed to flow (other than a dribble from what's already in the line) when the pump is on.

I'm probably grasping at straws, but that just occurred to me.

Thanks again for the help guys. Didn't get a chance to due the flow test today, I have two kids so free time is a bit limited, but I will try to find some time to do it tomorrow.
 

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As I was sitting here obsessing about what could be going on with the bike and looking over the fuel flow test in my service manual, I realized that when I drained the fuel last week to put in fresh gas that the fuel flowed freely from the line even when the pump was not on.

Is it supposed to do that?

The test in the manual makes it sound like fuel is only supposed to flow (other than a dribble from what's already in the line) when the pump is on.

I'm probably grasping at straws, but that just occurred to me.

Thanks again for the help guys. Didn't get a chance to due the flow test today, I have two kids so free time is a bit limited, but I will try to find some time to do it tomorrow.
Ah-ha! Good catch! NO....fuel is not supposed to flow from a disconnected fuel line. Just a few drops...so you've def got something wrong inside there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
RecoilRob, thank you for the reply, and I will drain the fuel and pull the pump to see what's going on in there.

If the pump motor itself is kaput, have you heard anything about the highflow brand aftermarket ones? They seem legit, with good feedback on their ebay store, I was just wondering if anyone has tried those.

I feel like I'm getting close to getting this solved, and I have you guys to thank. My only owner's association/message board experience is from ZRXOA.org, and they are great, I'm really happy to find there is an excellent resource for the SV as well. Thanks guys, and I will keep you posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am happy to report that my wife and I rode our bikes to lunch together today.

Rob, you called it on your post on the first page. I took out the fuel pump, and I heard the fuel pressure regulator fall into the tank. The little plastic bracket that holds it in place was stretched open, so I left the plastic piece in some hot water with a rubber band around it to form it closed and then dipped it in ice water after about 10 minutes in the hot water. Reformed it like a charm. Put everything back together and it started instantly, and runs like a champ.

You guys rock. Thank you again.
 

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That IS a weird one for sure, but not unknown on these bikes. Beauty of the forum is the collective wisdom it gives us all. Glad you got it sorted.:)

Oh...about the High Flow fuel pump....http://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162476&highlight=cheap+fuel+pump

Have close to a thousand miles on it now with excellent performance. Holds 50 psi at cruise and never drops off the regulated 43 psi even at WOT and redline...and this on the 1K, so the 650's will have a ton of headroom. If you ever need a pump, there is no good reason to spend $600 for sure.
 
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