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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
... is the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard on this board. "Replace the crap stock D220s with something that is more confidence inspriring."

What?!

That's terrifically sound advice. You certainly want the noob with less than 100 miles under his/her belt taking that hairpin with "confidence" over the thousands of miles of earned experience and skill.

I'm sorry, but this has got to be the worst advice ever. The noobs need to build their confidence by riding and learning through miles, classes and books. The confidence rise needs to coincide with the increase in skill that no amount of equipment can replace. Confidence inspiring is just hope in the equipment. The ability to get through the corner with the sticky side down is 100% skill and experience.

Who's with me?
 

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I can't help but feel this rant was sparked by a recent tire change thread...

I know what you're talking about though Capt. I heard a bunch of crap about the stock 220's and wanted to change them immediately. However, I didn't. I have about 5500 miles on mine so far and sure they still aren't great, but I've learned how to ride on them. I know the point where they start to slip, and I've learned to shift my weight properly to take corners a little safer with better grip on the road. If I started with a better tire that let me take turns improperly, I would probably never be forced to develop that skill. Sure it sucks being leaned over and feeling the rear start to slide out, but it will d*mn sure make you a better riding figuring out how not to become a new feature of the landscape.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yup. A recent tire change thread reminded me of the balogna advice. You've proved my point exactly. You don't need confidence, you need skill that comes with experience.

Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
 

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I can't help but feel this rant was sparked by a recent tire change thread...

I know what you're talking about though Capt. I heard a bunch of crap about the stock 220's and wanted to change them immediately. However, I didn't. I have about 5500 miles on mine so far and sure they still aren't great, but I've learned how to ride on them. I know the point where they start to slip, and I've learned to shift my weight properly to take corners a little safer with better grip on the road. If I started with a better tire that let me take turns improperly, I would probably never be forced to develop that skill. Sure it sucks being leaned over and feeling the rear start to slide out, but it will d*mn sure make you a better riding figuring out how not to become a new feature of the landscape.
+1 same here
 

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Lifer
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I think it depends on the state of your stock tires lol. I had 16k on my tires when I got rid of them and having tires that are round instead of square is HUGELY confidence inspiring. It feels a LOT safer to take turns than before. I bet I would have had the same feeling with new D220s though lol.
 

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These don't look like D220's to me. Aren't we being a little hypocritical?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2669129595/

D220s don't heat up quickly. D220's slide easily. Sliding tires do not increase confidence, they increase fear. Fear causes one to freeze up. Freezing up causes crashes.

So, I'm not with you, buy hey, rant all you want - hipocrit.
 

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Even an experienced rider that's new to a peticular bike needs to learn that new machine before going out trying to drag a knee. In the process (that's right...it's a process) a smart rider finds their own limitations as well as those of the machine/equipment.

If upgrades in tires, suspension parts, etc, are made as necessity calls for it, then that's OK. Being compelled to do so just because someone else did it, or told you that you should, is foolish.

Having said that, I also know that the best that you know is the best that you've had. If you never buy/try something that might be better, you'll never know.
 

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Yeah you're rant is dumb. So basically it's saying you need to ride on a piece of sh!t bike to gain "skill". It means until you have tons of miles you shouldn't even think about getting on a GSXR 600 because it has better components all around...

So by saying that, would you then say upgrading your front fork springs to your weight is also a bad idea because it would be "confidence inspiring" to newbs?

These upgrades are there to help make the riding experience the best and smoothest it can possibly get. People tend to ride more when their bikes are conformed to them. I will feel better when I feel my bike is more controllable for me, whether it be better tires, suspension, etc..
 

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silversx80;1519580 Who's with me?[/quote said:
I'm with you on this and I'll raise you one: Same goes for suspension and brake mods. Badly worn tires aside, if you can't handle the stock bike confidently, "better" equipment isn't what you need.
 

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If something tickles in the back of your mind and all it takes is to swap something out to ease that doubt. I say do it. Placebo effect or not it will affect the riders concentration if he's constantly second guessing his hardware.
 

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By no means us this my first bike but I changed the stockers out at 600 miles. Say what you will but the stock tires and the new conti's are day and night in delivering how the bike handles and feels. I'd suggest changing them out to even the novice rider just bc it makes your ride much more enjoyable. I don't carve canyons frequently so I know I didn't/ haven't pushed either to their potential nor did it give me the confidence to go out and drag knee or want to. The majority of the mods that riders do here are not defined by a skill set.
 

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Who is this noob Rossi...I haven't seen him on this forum? I would bet that any of the instructors at the (former) Schwantz Suzuki School on the STOCK SV's they used could outride the overwhelming majority of the students who were on GSXR's.
 

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(SNIP) D220s don't heat up quickly. D220's slide easily. (SNIP)
I agree - I hated the 220 front, and got rid of it immediately (500mi).

I've ridden for over 30 years, and after riding my new SV I was like WTF is with this front end? It felt like crap - loose, vague, overly tippy... It felt like a front end wash-out was around every corner.

I put a Conti SportAttack on and the SV immediately felt like I thought it should. There are even better tires out there than the Contis, but they cured what I felt was a big problem.

I don't know about confidence "inspiring", but I know there is such a thing as "uninspiring".

You can ride for years with the 220s, but once you change you will probably wonder why you waited so long.


Jay
 

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Provided it was hot out, I had a lot of confidence on the d220, and those melted rubber buggers they grow on the edges are ****ed sexy. They were great in the summer. Of course, once they squared off after a 1000 mile slab trip, the same confidence left me sliding across the road one cool, slightly damp morning. True, to this day, this hurt my confidence for downhill, decreasing radius turns but it might have been a bit too high to begin with. ;) I kept them for 10000 miles. Edit: ..... and agree with Silver.
 

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SV Hadder
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D220s don't heat up quickly. D220's slide easily. Sliding tires do not increase confidence, they increase fear. Fear causes one to freeze up. Freezing up causes crashes.

So, I'm not with you, buy hey, rant all you want - hipocrit.
BUT If you take the time to properly use the 220, those problems go away. Give it time to heat up and it is a great tire. We should tell newbs that they need to take it easier for a few miles with a lot of accelerating and braking and their tire would be ready to go. Instead many ill informed forum members scream about how horrible the tire is and CAUSE the fear.

Yeah you're rant is dumb. So basically it's saying you need to ride on a piece of sh!t bike to gain "skill". It means until you have tons of miles you shouldn't even think about getting on a GSXR 600 because it has better components all around...

So by saying that, would you then say upgrading your front fork springs to your weight is also a bad idea because it would be "confidence inspiring" to newbs?

These upgrades are there to help make the riding experience the best and smoothest it can possibly get. People tend to ride more when their bikes are conformed to them. I will feel better when I feel my bike is more controllable for me, whether it be better tires, suspension, etc..
Throwing parts at perceived issues is not the way to approach riding. If you ride a bike and learn where the weaknesses are and THEN make changes, great! I can't count how many newbs come in with less than 10 posts and 2 weeks under their belt and say "Ok, I just got my SV and I understand that I need new tires, fork springs, oil and a new shock." That is ridiculous. People give off this impression that the SV is ONLY a good bike when it is upgraded and that is DEAD WRONG.

If something tickles in the back of your mind and all it takes is to swap something out to ease that doubt. I say do it. Placebo effect or not it will affect the riders concentration if he's constantly second guessing his hardware.
And that is exactly silver's point. WE (SVR) have created this placebo effect. I've had 220's screamin in the hills of WV with rubber ballin up on the edges of the tire with NO slipping or catastrophic consequences.

I agree - I hated the 220 front, and got rid of it immediately (500mi).

I've ridden for over 30 years, and after riding my new SV I was like WTF is with this front end? It felt like crap - loose, vague, overly tippy... It felt like a front end wash-out was around every corner.

I put a Conti SportAttack on and the SV immediately felt like I thought it should. There are even better tires out there than the Contis, but they cured what I felt was a big problem.

I don't know about confidence "inspiring", but I know there is such a thing as "uninspiring".

You can ride for years with the 220s, but once you change you will probably wonder why you waited so long.

Jay
500 miles?!? Dude do you really believe that that is enough time to decide if you like a tire? HA!

Conti's are LESS tippy? HAHAHA, conti's have about the tallest profile ON THE MARKET!

How about you actually try to ride a tire for years before you try to stuff words in the mouths of those who ACTUALLY HAVE!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
These don't look like D220's to me. Aren't we being a little hypocritical?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2669129595/

D220s don't heat up quickly. D220's slide easily. Sliding tires do not increase confidence, they increase fear. Fear causes one to freeze up. Freezing up causes crashes.

So, I'm not with you, buy hey, rant all you want - hipocrit.
Thanks fro being a douche and not understanding the point of the thread. That's a bike with >10,000 miles, 9,XXX of which were on the D220s. The Road Attacks were cheaper than D220s, and better, but that's not the point.

The point, for those without reading comprehension, is that putting your confidence in tires before skill, and advising such, is deserving of a Darwin Award.

The D220s are not bad tires. They are an average tire for an average rider. Poor skills will be amplified by the tires because they are not as forgiving as newer tires.

It's just like learning golf. You can buy a forgiving club that will handle your p!ss poor swing, but you'll never have the skill to improve your game. You're learning poor technique, and placing that in your muscle memory. That will later come back to bite you in the ass when you're trying to show off.

If you can't handle the SV650 on the D220s, your skill sucks and you need to re-learn how to ride.
 

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These don't look like D220's to me. Aren't we being a little hypocritical?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2669129595/

D220s don't heat up quickly. D220's slide easily. Sliding tires do not increase confidence, they increase fear. Fear causes one to freeze up. Freezing up causes crashes.

So, I'm not with you, buy hey, rant all you want - hipocrit.
you can't really call him a hYpocrite....I'm pretty sure silver realizes that stock tires aren't the best rubber out there. But you really gotta look at the bigger picture. New riders aren't going to lean over as much as the experienced ones. As they learn through experience, they will find the limitations on the stock tires and measure their progess in skills and experience.

Now with that said, if the rider wants to upgrade to a new tire because they feel that they are capable of pushing the limits and would like to be assured that the rear won't slip out as much, I'm not stopping them.

The bigger picture here is that when people give advices, they sometimes give the advice without knowing the context of the question. If I ask for advice on a tire, I'd put down the context of my riding experience, how aggressive/passive I ride, and etc so that those who are experience in tires can give me the correct advice rather than buy something that is "confidence inspiring". really, what does that even mean to a new rider? Does that mean that they should go out and buy Pirelli's because I think they might be "confidence inspiring".

just gotta look at it in silver's context of his rant...

Yeah you're rant is dumb. So basically it's saying you need to ride on a piece of sh!t bike to gain "skill". It means until you have tons of miles you shouldn't even think about getting on a GSXR 600 because it has better components all around...

So by saying that, would you then say upgrading your front fork springs to your weight is also a bad idea because it would be "confidence inspiring" to newbs?

These upgrades are there to help make the riding experience the best and smoothest it can possibly get. People tend to ride more when their bikes are conformed to them. I will feel better when I feel my bike is more controllable for me, whether it be better tires, suspension, etc..
I think riding on a piece of sht is a great way to gain the inital "skill". By POS I don't mean something that is literally falling apart. By your definition, SV is a POS? I don't think so...I don't think stock tires are POS either. May not be the greatest...but not POS. POS is running slicks in the rain...that's POS tire...lol and no common sense.

Upgrading your front forks spring is not really necessary when you're not looking ride on twisties/track/aggressive is it? Yeah it definitely feels better when you have better components, but they won't manufacture something that isn't "safe". Now if you weigh like 250lb on a SV, common sense puts you in the direction of upgrading/changing the specs on the suspension.

Those upgrades are in fact there to help the riding experience more enjoyable. But what does the new rider know about the "experience" when they haven't even truly experienced it. Again, it's all about context.

When I work on my car, I don't upgrade the crap out of my car because it's been proven to be give better performance...it depends on what I need. And what I need depends on the experience. If you don't have that experience and skill, you don't even know what you really need...so you're just pouring money down the drain without truly knowing YOUR own personal weaknesses and strengths..that's just my thought

On one of the posts in NJ/NY thread, someone was talking about how some riders were going extremely fast around the twisties around here...but in reality it's how familiar you are with the road and experience level. 60 mph around twisties would seem stupid fast for a new rider do you not agree?

So unless you experience the bike as stock, you can't measure yourself to know what to upgrade to. To upgrade, you gotta have purpose, method, and end state to really get the full affect. You ain't gonna get that if you straight up start upgrading as soon as you get it just because it's "confidence inspiring".

Again...you gotta put everything in context...and I think you just gotta look at what context silver is talking about here....without it you're just going to keep calling his rant "dumb". :)
 

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And that is exactly silver's point. WE (SVR) have created this placebo effect. I've had 220's screamin in the hills of WV with rubber ballin up on the edges of the tire with NO slipping or catastrophic consequences.
I'm not disputing that when the tires are warm and the road is dry they aren't proficient tires. The minute you introduce cold and wet, they just aren't the best.

I look at it as tires are like shoes, depending on what you are looking to do with them theres a more ideal pair for each situation. I mean if you go out on the basketball courts and all your buddies are raving about a particular brand/model of basketball shoes and you're rockin' the chuck taylors, what's the hard in going out and giving them a try?

SVR is such a bipolar forum...either you're an idiot for listening to the masses or you're an idiot for not listening to the masses.

The D220s are not bad tires. They are an average tire for an average rider. Poor skills will be amplified by the tires because they are not as forgiving as newer tires.
Isn't that why better tires would be CONFIDENCE INSPIRING?
 
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