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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok so this might be an incredible newbie question, i really dont know. anyway, i was watching a motoGP dvd that i bought and some of the racers are talking about clutchless shifting and whatnot, and downshifting without a clutch entirely. so whats the deal on that? wouldnt that be incredibly hard on the bike? i know that they are racers and they go through stuff quickly anyway but still i would think that that would be incredibly detrimental to the bike. so if someone could shed some light on the idea of shifting clutchless that would be great. thanks!
 

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It can be done easily and without harm to the transmission IF DONE RIGHT.
Most people who use clutchless shifting will only do it on the track.
I had been doing it regularly on the street; though, in an effort to ride more relaxed to save fuel, I use the clutch again.
Making turns (leaning over) while accelerating and shifting is much safer than using the clutch because it can be done in less time... almost instantaneous. I've been in some fairly hard acceleration while leaned over pretty good and shifted gears without upsetting the bike. I try not to do it often as it is more dangerous than staying in the same gear. Some will say that's not true, but considering it works for me... it must be true.
If you do it wrong, you could end up with bent or otherwise jacked up internals which essentially is a ruined tranny.
Downshifting without the clutch is almost as easy.

It's about taking the load off the transmission. Upshifting is best accomplished by pushing up with enough pressure to shift while accelerating just before you're ready to upshift. When you're ready for the next gear, you "blip" the throttle to unload the transmission (consequently the motor as well). With the pressure you're putting on the shifter, it will easily fall into the next gear.  Blipping is just letting off and getting back into the throttle real quick.
 

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Hi my name is Nate and I'm a clutchless-coholic.
 

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I've found it works smoothest at 9500rpms 1st -3rd. :D WEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
 

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i [email protected] up my tranny by doing clutchless up shifts... it was always popping outa gear! now that i shift with the clutch it never happens anymore
 

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If the bike doesn't pop out of gear when you use the clutch then the transmission isn't screwed. If the bike does pop out of gear when clutchless upshifting then you just aren't doing it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ok i somewhat understand what you're talking about. however when you speak of blipping the throttle just before you are ready to upshift into the next gear doesnt that throttle blip cause a large jolt or something? also let me see if i am getting this straight. essentially when you are downshifting without the clutch you would shift just after the point of letting off the throttle but before the engine puts a load on the transmission right?
 

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To get a smooth clutchless upshift you only really need to roll off the the throttle about a quarter turn, and give a firm stab on the shifter.
It can be done very easily, but it takes a bit of practice to find the right rpm where the gears mesh together. Clutchless downshifts on the other hand are tricky, you need to be low enough in the rpm range that you don't jolt the bike and possibly lockup the rear.
 

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miggs said:
To get a smooth clutchless upshift you only really need to roll off the the throttle about a quarter turn, and give a firm stab on the shifter.
It can be done very easily, but it takes a bit of practice to find the right rpm where the gears mesh together. Clutchless downshifts on the other hand are tricky, you need to be low enough in the rpm range that you don't jolt the bike and possibly lockup the rear.
I'm not so sure it matters what the RPM's are at. I can shift equally easy in all gears and RPMs... upshift and downshift. Maybe you're just having trouble being smoother in higher RPMs. Even when I was first learning how to no-clutch it, I never had any jolts. And now, it's so smooth and fast that it feels almost like an automatic transmission.

There won't be any "locking" technically either. The rear tire may spin a little slower than the actual MPH but it will quickly catch on again. If that's happening, you're doing something wrong.
 

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miggs said:
To get a smooth clutchless upshift you only really need to roll off the the throttle about a quarter turn, and give a firm stab on the shifter.
It can be done very easily, but it takes a bit of practice to find the right rpm where the gears mesh together. Clutchless downshifts on the other hand are tricky, you need to be low enough in the rpm range that you don't jolt the bike and possibly lockup the rear.

uh, a quarter turn is ALL the way, more than all the way if you've made the r6 throttle tube conversion

the way you describe it, stabbing at the shifter???? and roling off the throttle first wouldn't be very smooth
 

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I've set my clutch's engagement point to be when I am barely squeezing the clutch lever. There is no way that barely touching the lever the same time I shift is any slower than cluthless and its much easier to keep it smooth.


-josh
 

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Newdriver said:
I've set my clutch's engagement point to be when I am barely squeezing the clutch lever. There is no way that barely touching the lever the same time I shift is any slower than cluthless and its much easier to keep it smooth.


-josh
If you're barely squeezing the clutch lever to make a difference, then the way you have it adjusted is likely leaves the actual clutch not fully engaged.
If you haven't tried clutchless shifting long enough to get decent at it, then I can understand your thought about the speed/smoothness. It rocks. Try it for awhile and let me know what you think later.
 

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ShaggyZ said:
If you're barely squeezing the clutch lever to make a difference, then the way you have it adjusted is likely leaves the actual clutch not fully engaged.
If you haven't tried clutchless shifting long enough to get decent at it, then I can understand your thought about the speed/smoothness.  It rocks. Try it for awhile and let me know what you think later.
+1

If you don't have at least a tiny bit of slack in your clutch lever then you're gonna burn up your clutch. And clutchless shifting is definitely smoother if you do it right.
 

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Hmm well there is a tiny bit of play, but I'm pretty confident it's fully engaging/ disengaging.


-josh
 

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The SV is made to be shifted UP without clutch. close ratio gears. track or street, doesn't matter.

when you do it right, the passenger has no idea you shifted gears. it's ultra smooth.

you have to "un-blip" the throttle (smoothly and slightly roll off the trottle) to unload the transmission while holding constant and steady pressure on the shifter. its that simple. the hard part is HOW MUCH to un-blip. this will change with your speed, gear, and RPM. If you're cruising at constant speed you can shift almost without "un-blipping" at all. At WOT at 10,000 RPMs you'll have to un-blip a bit more.

Holding pressure on the shifter (UP) with your boot won't shift the gears when the engine is under load, so don't worry. But when you un-blip it will smoothly schnick into the next gear. follow the shift all the way through with your boot to make sure you shift completely.

Don't be afraid of screwwing anything up. It'll be really jerky at first, but when you learn to adjust the un-blip to your RPMs it'll be magical. Better than Siegfried & Roy.

P.S. DO NOT CLUTCHLESS DOWNSHIFT.
 

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P.P.S. its easiest to learn at the higher gears... basically anything besides the 1-->2 shift. that one is still jerky for me. the other gears might be at a different ratio or something.. but that 1-->2 always give me trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
cool guys thanks for the help! i'm going on a two day ride with my dad and uncle so i just may give that technique a try or two!
 
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