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What is it about Stoner? - he rides the b'jesus out of that thang. I hope Nicky can sort things out soon. Bayliss starts testing the GP9 next week. Perhaps the combination of better team structure, testing, and a new crew chief, Nicky can find some magic......if not, Bayliss might end up with that ride!:eek: Thoughts?
 

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I totally hate to say this cause I dig Hayden, but I don't think he's coming back to the big time anytime soon (granted he's in Moto GP and has a title, so I really have no business talking). I suspect this season is over for him already and I haven't seen a thing so far that makes me think he's going to show anything on the Duc. If he goes nowhere, where's that leave Ducati? Will they keep him around? Maybe Hayden is better off in WSBK. The racing seems better and Moto GP is struggling all over the place. Moto GP may be done before Hayden.
 

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All last year, it seems, their were a bunch of Hayden nuts on here talking about how all Hayden needed to win was a Ducati, the Honda was all about Pedrosa and Melandri is worthless because he cannot ride a Ducati. Now we have Melandri scoring way higher, consistantly, on a somewhat non-factory Kawasaki thingy, Dovisioso doing well on a new bike (HONDA) and Hayden still sucking on a Ducati. So of course the excuses start once again. "He's on a new bike, a new team etc. etc" Waah waah waah! Could it possibly be that he cannot ride at this level anymore? Or does he need to cycle through all the other makes too before people catch a clue?

It's a good thing Rossi never switched to a new bike and new team because obviously no one can do well under such circumstances.

I am mostly sorry if this rant offends anyone but I am tired of people unreasonably propping someone up just because they are a nice guy and happen to be an american.
 

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All last year, it seems, their were a bunch of Hayden nuts on here talking about how all Hayden needed to win was a Ducati, the Honda was all about Pedrosa and Melandri is worthless because he cannot ride a Ducati. Now we have Melandri scoring way higher, consistantly, on a somewhat non-factory Kawasaki thingy, Dovisioso doing well on a new bike (HONDA) and Hayden still sucking on a Ducati. So of course the excuses start once again. "He's on a new bike, a new team etc. etc" Waah waah waah! Could it possibly be that he cannot ride at this level anymore? Or does he need to cycle through all the other makes too before people catch a clue?

It's a good thing Rossi never switched to a new bike and new team because obviously no one can do well under such circumstances.

I am mostly sorry if this rant offends anyone but I am tired of people unreasonably propping someone up just because they are a nice guy and happen to be an american.
your reasoning is off.
its not that he cant ride that at that level anymore its far from that. Remember Nicky outplaced Pedrobot last year after the midget made the move to Bridgestones. He adapted the RC212V to do what it needed to finish top 10 and occasionally top 5 for himself.
I was one of the outcasts that just said "just because he's going to the Duc dont get your hopes up."
Reason being only two people have been able to ride the 800 version. Casey Stoner and Alex Barros. Everyone else has been a HUGE failure.
comment 1- "Oh but its more Nicky's style with gobs of horsepower and sliding around"
rebuttle 1- No its not. The GP7/8/9 is an extremely controlled machine. Nicky was a world class rider coming out of AMA Superbike with superb throttle control. As we've seen the telemetry the Duc doesnt reward throttle control like say the RC211V and the M1 did/do.
comment 2- "Oh but its just Melandri is garbage and is done"
rebuttle 2- Marco Melandri is far from garbage or done. He was actually one of the most successful riders in the 990s and the fact that he came through the 250 class means that the 800s should suit him well like the rest of the recent graduates. Remember that Melandri is one of the last people to win a race on a Honda without the Repsol colors flying in the background. Also remember that Capperossi didnt gel too well with the GP7. he won races on the GP6, and now he's constantly top 10 top 5 with Suzuki.

There are a few things worth noting here.
1) the 800s are a 250 rider's bike based on incredible corner entry speeds with an electronically provided manageable power while the 990s were superbike/500 2 stroke/dirt trackers bikes based on corner exit and managing ungodly amounts of power with little electronic input. Look at everyone who's had success with the 800s
Casey Stoner- 2 time runner up in the 250 class
Pedrobot- 2 time 250 champ
Lorenzo- 2 time 250 champ
Dovi- rode the wheels of a Honda bike that had stopped being developed 4 years ago to runner up behind Lorenzo
Rossi- 250 champ
Edwards- 250 US champ back when we had that class as part of the AMA
Melandri- i will throw in there because he's doing well on the Hayate and he did well with Gresini Honda for what it was worth with a garbage bike
Obviously this isnt Nicky's riding style. He's a break the backend loose and slide it through the corner kinda rider. I mean that 06 picture from Valencia where he's got his knee down and the rear end stepped out, thats Nicky right there. He needs a bike that rewards throttle control, which is why I've said from the beginning he needed to either land at Gresini Honda or beside Colin on the Tech 3 Yamaha. the Honda because it would be familiar and he would be treated a lot better than the Repsol team where he wasnt wanted. And Tech 3 with Colin so that another former Superbike champ could help him adjust to the 800s
2) the new. The new crew chief wasnt because Nicky wasnt getting on with his. This was a Ducati wide decision that opened up the track engineer to do what he was hired to do, not pull double duty. Last i heard Nicky didnt have a problem with his crew chief. I think the problem might be that he has been with the same crew for a really long time. getting on with a new team while may take some adjusting I thought they had gone through that during off season testing. The new tires. Most everyone is dealing with the new tires. Technically the 'stone riders from last year are also dealing with new tires since these are control tires and dont provide the levels of grip of last years 'stones.
most importantly
3) the bike. Like i mentioned above, the Ducati is not where Nicky needed to land if he wanted to return to fighting for podiums. The electronics are so complex and so good that if you're not riding the bike inside of a very small window they work more against you than for you. Casey Stone seems to be the only active rider able to ride in that window. That window is also at and sometimes just beyond the bikes limits. Its not that Casey blindly trusts in the electronics or that he's hamfisted, he just knows that every lap is on the limit for the electronics to work in his favor. And thats the reason why when Rossi challenges there isnt anything that Stoner can do. There is no 'next level' to reach. The bike is already doing everything it can to run that pace.

the best thing for Nicky to do in the current situation is to pull the electonics off of the Duc. I mean thats never going to happen, but its their traction/race control thats really hampering him.
 

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He's a break the backend loose and slide it through the corner kinda rider
I've heard this over and over. It isn't a valid excuse. MotoGP is prototype racing and the technology has moved past that, so in order to be a top MotoGP rider you have to adapt. This is why Rossi is God...125: check, 250: check, 500: check, 990 Honda: check, 990 Yamaha: check, 800: check, fusion powered hover cycle: inevitable check.

Having said that I really hope Hayden succeeds, not only for his sake, but Ducati's as well.
 

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I've heard this over and over. It isn't a valid excuse. MotoGP is prototype racing and the technology has moved past that, so in order to be a top MotoGP rider you have to adapt. This is why Rossi is God...125: check, 250: check, 500: check, 990 Honda: check, 990 Yamaha: check, 800: check, fusion powered hover cycle: inevitable check.

Having said that I really hope Hayden succeeds, not only for his sake, but Ducati's as well.
which is why i also mentioned this
He needs a bike that rewards throttle control, which is why I've said from the beginning he needed to either land at Gresini Honda or beside Colin on the Tech 3 Yamaha. the Honda because it would be familiar and he would be treated a lot better than the Repsol team where he wasnt wanted. And Tech 3 with Colin so that another former Superbike champ could help him adjust to the 800s
 

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Your entitled to your opinion but there is more here than meets the untrained eye. If you want to consider some facts read the story at below link. If not, armchair GP rider away...

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/05/13/ducati_recognizes_problems_reorganizes_h.html
Thanks for pointing out something that has nothing to do with my main point. My MAIN point is that people kept saying "Haydens riding style will suit the Ducati much better" "Hayden will do much better on a bike not designed around the dreaded Pedrosa" It was all centered around the Idea that all his problems would be solved if only he would switch to Ducati. Of course there were no facts to back this up and some of us worthless "armchair" racers could see this. And it still all boils down to the rider. Obviously a Ducati, ridden properly, can win races. Hayden cannot currently adapt to it and ride it properly.

Now if you would like to see how to respond to my comments using sound reasoning and intelligence without being condescending please see fullmetal's excellent response.
 

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I've heard this over and over. It isn't a valid excuse. MotoGP is prototype racing and the technology has moved past that, so in order to be a top MotoGP rider you have to adapt. This is why Rossi is God...125: check, 250: check, 500: check, 990 Honda: check, 990 Yamaha: check, 800: check, fusion powered hover cycle: inevitable check.

Having said that I really hope Hayden succeeds, not only for his sake, but Ducati's as well.


You them right about that Rossi is still the best and the good think about him is that his sets ups on the bike suit all the other Yamaha Riders as you could see from the results. Unlike the situation that Hayden is in now, Stoner's setups don't seem to suit him or anyother Ducati rider, Stoner is the only one that can win on the GP9.
 

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your reasoning is off.
its not that he cant ride that at that level anymore its far from that...

There are a few things worth noting here...


the best thing for Nicky to do in the current situation is to pull the electonics off of the Duc. I mean thats never going to happen, but its their traction/race control thats really hampering him.
Thanks for your well-reasoned, thoughtfull response to my rant. Very informative and factual. You do essentially back up my main point though. That is, everyone who said he would do much better once on a Ducati were clearly high! Those paying attention could see things would probably not go well. His riding style does not adapt well to the 800's and there was no reason to believe this would change with a switch to Ducati.

Nicky does have 250 and 125 experience though. I have pics of him racing at Seattle International Raceway on a 250 he raced in WERA when he was 9 (!)
years old! (I think)
 

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i really wanna see nick do well on the ducati, to a point where honda questions letting him go.
 

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I make no claim how well Nicky will do...that is in no one's control but his.

BUT, how well would any of you do if you had a nasty highside in a practice session either the morning of, or day before, of one race, and then get crashed out, by another rider, in the next race, a week or so later???
 

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Now if you would like to see how to respond to my comments using sound reasoning and intelligence without being condescending please see fullmetal's excellent response.
Did you even read the article ? Probably not since you know it all already. I'll use sound reasoning and intelligence in response to your comments when and if you ever get your head out of your A$$ long enough to realize there is a lot more to riding at that level than any of us that have never done so could possibly imagine...
 

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I make no claim how well Nicky will do...that is in no one's control but his.

BUT, how well would any of you do if you had a nasty highside in a practice session either the morning of, or day before, of one race, and then get crashed out, by another rider, in the next race, a week or so later???
Well the closest I'll get to a MotoGP bike is a spectator at Laguna : )

As for a MotoGP rider, how about Lorenzo last year taking 4th in China after an epic highside resulting in two broken ankles and then 2nd two weeks later at Le Mans?
 

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As for a MotoGP rider, how about Lorenzo last year taking 4th in China after an epic highside resulting in two broken ankles and then 2nd two weeks later at Le Mans?
Pro motorcycle roadracers are the toughest sum de biotches on the planet as far as I'm concerned :D
 

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which is why i also mentioned this
Which is an excellent point. I think Tech 3 would be the perfect ride for him, and Hayden's got more to offer than Toseland, imo. But right here right now it's on his shoulders to adapt and Ducati's to make the beast ridable. That article motodog threw up was great read.

I'm looking forward to see how Kalio fares as he settles in to the big class, he's got tremendous potential.
 

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Which is an excellent point. I think Tech 3 would be the perfect ride for him, and Hayden's got more to offer than Toseland, imo. But right here right now it's on his shoulders to adapt and Ducati's to make the beast ridable. That article motodog threw up was great read.

I'm looking forward to see how Kalio fares as he settles in to the big class, he's got tremendous potential.
Kalio is the bomb schizzle. i hope he signs onto a factory squad in the near future
like Doug said, hopefully they've got some info from the test with bayliss (who said he's not interested in coming back) that nicky can use
 

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I find it amazing that some guys have a ride in motogp and others do not. Case in point - Ben Spies has dominated several races in WSBK, but suzuki passed on him in motogp. West and Hopkins both had motogp rides - gimme a break. I think Hayden is great, but he was better off on a Honda. Let's no forget, he didn't win the championship, Rossi lost it. There is a difference. I want to see great racing and would love to see Nicky running up at the front. The best race I've seen in motogp was Luguna last year. My attention is now focussed on WSBK - Go Ben - he's the new American hero.
 
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