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Discussion Starter #1
2 summers ago, I got two huge speeding tickets. Since then, I have been riding carefully. No tickets in 2004, and none this year, until yesterday... this is what happened.

Early morning (Labour day) , I'm riding in downtown Toronto. Very light traffic.
Classic situation: radar trap in the bushes, 2 officers waiting, with one police car rady to go if necessary. The officer stopped me... When I took my helmet off, he showed me the reading on the gun's display (first time ever an officer let me see the gun screen, in Ontario Canada they are not obligated to show it). The digital display said ?86 KPH?.

Then, he said that the speed limit is 60 kph in that road...  :eek:  ... there are signs indicating 75 kph, but he keeps telling me that is a 60 zone. I guess that at some point on the road, the speed limit drops to 60, now I have to go back and look for the 60 kph sings, if any.

The officer tells me that he is going to give me a ticket, but I'll get a break. The ticket is 65 on a 60. No demerit points. He reduced it from 26 over the limit to 5 over the limit. It was a big break. I have to say that he was a very decent officer, polite and friendly, yet business-like. I really appreciated that.

If there is no sign clearly indicating that the speed limits drops to 60kph, I am planning to fight it.

He used a laser gun. Does any one knows how they work?
Does the laser gun show the speed in real-time in the display? Does it stop when the officer presses the trigger?
Or does the officer has to press the trigger to get a reading?

Thanks for reading...

Marcos
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

Sorry to hear of this Marcos. Laser is a b1tch. It is instant on (when the trigger is hit) and very accurate (the narrow beam is focused only on one vehicle at a time). Much more accurate than radar. Also, most detectors do fine vs radar but laser is much tougher to detect ahead of time due to its pinpoint accuracy and lack of prewarning. Best, Mike.
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

i've heard stories of people fighting a ticket they got a break on and getting nailed on what they should have gotten originally. so if you fight the 65/60 ticket, you might possibly be looking at the 86/60 ticket.
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

Don't fight it, pay it and consider yourself lucky you aren't getting points!
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

Even if you're right about the signs, you admitted you were doing 11 kph over what you thought the speed limit was. The officer gave you a five over ticket. Why would you fight that? You did it.
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

Sounds like either
A: he's giving you a break or
B: he lowered it knowing you'd be more likely to pay it than fight it, and generate city revenue.

If you wont get any points and you know you were speeding I'd pay it. Also check into the zoning for that road and see if its zoned for that speed. If its not and its not posted you may have legal recourse. Drops like that that are not zoned are considered speed traps and in a lot of places are not legal. I have no idea how that would be in Toronto, but in FL and up in MA it wasn't legal to do that, there have been a couple of suits I know of in CA regarding that.

BTW, he could've laser tagged a car passing behind you. There's no way to know for sure that he lasered YOU and not someone else. A traffic cop buddy of mine here in TX told me that lasering a bike is really tricky. A lot of times you can't even get a return.
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

I'm from Kitchener and go to Toronto sometimes and never have I seen a 75kph speed limit. I've only seen 60,70,80 etc.
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

I use LaserVeil on my bike and it makes it almost impossible for the cops to hit you with Laser (I've tested it)... combined with my V1 (which detects laser) I've been fortunate enough to avoid a number of tickets unless the cops (gu)estimates your speed... but that's another story... and fight it, all this crap about bending over and taking it in the ass is shit, but only fight it if you think you've got a sound way out otherwise as mentioned it might bite you back...
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

I think that if you got a break from a decent cop and the ticket does not carry any point violations pay the fine and move on....but if you are going to get fined "points" toward some future loss of license or increase in insurance premiums it may be worth pleading not guilty.  When court day comes approach the officer prior to trail and say that you do not wish to necessarily get out of paying a fine but want to maintain your "good drivers status" and could he possibly give a non-moving violation instead.....ala no seat belt,  parking on pavement, etc that would still generate revenue but not hurt you in the longrun.   Those last two were what I bartered for instead of speed violations locally in NY in the past three years.  They were for 61 in a 40, and 50 in a 35 zone.   This was a much better long term deal and the towns made their $120 and $100 respectively.
 

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Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

he gave you a break... dont be stupid and throw that back in his face in court, he'll just think your ungrateful. just take what you were given and learn from it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: And I got another speeding ticket!!!

UPDATE!!!

Short version: I fought it and I won

Long version:
Fighting this ticket has nothing to do with how nicely the cop treated me, or with me being ungrateful. Somebody wrote above that the officer was pretty decent? yes, he was decent, and I appreciate that. And yes, I did it, I was speeding ? doing 86 in a 60 km per hour zone, but I had to fight the ticket because a few reasons.

The main one is that I wasn?t riding like an idiot, conditions of the road were great (warm, dry, smooth pavement), and no traffic in front or behind me. Other reasons are my personal opinions about speeding (some may disagree), and the way insurance works, it could cost much more on the long term.

I don't advocate speeding for the sake of speeding, but I believe the speed limits in Canada are set way too low? this is done not to increase the safety of the motorists but to increase revenue. I have mentioned these opinions before? but believe me, it still makes me a bit uncomfortable to be a board moderator ? and try to defend (or justify) my speeding ways? ;D

As I mentioned this latest ticket was my first one in almost 2 years, so as you can see I was careful (and lucky) for a while.

At this point I have a good idea of how the whole thing works, and instead of going to court, I arranged a preliminary meeting with the Prosecutor office. A while back I realized that it?s a lot easier to arrange things there than in court. And if this meeting doesn?t work out, you can still take it to court.

Anyway... there you have it. I hope you can see my point of view (why I fought it).

Marcos
 

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Could have just taken it to court as well, it's pretty much guaranteed that the cop won't show up. Work to Rule rocks!! ;)
 
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miggs said:
Could have just taken it to court as well, it's pretty much guaranteed that the cop won't show up. Work to Rule rocks!! ;)
Not in my county they don't.  You'd be lucky to see one in one thousand that the officer misses it.  And in those rare circumstances, most of the time, they still grant a continuance if the officer does not show.
 

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So what was your argument against it? "Yes, I was speeding, but conditions were favorable."???
 

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kevinb120 said:
Not in my county they don't.  You'd be lucky to see one in one thousand that the officer misses it.  And in those rare circumstances, most of the time, they still grant a continuance if the officer does not show.
Here in toronto, our police services have been on work to rule for 3 weeks. no cars on active patrol they are just parked all over the city, no traffic tickets being issued; only warnings, no officers attending court, and they are only responding to radio calls. It's pretty much open season, unless you are doing something dangerous / violent.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Poe said:
So what was your argument against it?  "Yes, I was speeding, but conditions were favorable."???
To win speeding tickets: don?t get them. Know when, where, and how to speed. Don?t endanger others or yourself.

If you get a ticket, don?t argue with the police officer. It is just his job. But do ask (loud and clear and politely) for a break.

Make notes of the circumstances under which you got the ticket ? I strongly suggest to go back and take photographs of the road, the place where the radar trap was, how many police officers, etc. etc.

Then, go to court with your notes and ask for another break. It is the ?double dipping? effect: the officer gives you a break, and the court is going to give you another one. You'll get a reduced charge, or perhaps... you may even win!!

Marcos
 

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Discussion Starter #19
In my case, after asking the officer for a break, next day I went back looking for the posted speed sign.

Remember. the road has a posted speed of 70 and then it drops to 60.
Proper signals must exist.

This is the CLOSEST sign to where the police officer was (radar trap was around the bend at the bottom of the hill):



Can you see the sign? It says 60

Marcos
 
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