[Troy Jollimore]

Which has me thinking: why Suzuki didn't update/improve the GSX-S 750 instead of introducing the GSX-8S?

Because no matter how good it was, the competition could say how ‘old’ the engine is, and people will think, “Old equals bad.”

 

[Troy Jollimore]

I r confused… Everyone is ranting about the weight. Yet the SV only weighs 15-20lbs less, while making less power…and this new bike is lighter than the bike it is meant to replace, the GSX-S750? 🤔

Plus, to paraphrase… “It is unforgivable they didn’t include an adjustable suspension.”
Also, to paraphrase… “Any serious rider is going to swap it out anyway…”

🤷‍♂️

 

[Troy Jollimore]

Troy, the power/weight ratio of a GSX-S 750 is way higher than the one of the GSX-8S, in this sense the new bike is a step back.

The only bike with ratio close to the GSX-8S is the MT-07, which is a rather old design (compared to the remainin ones) .

It is unforgivable they didn't include adjustable (FULLY adjustable) suspensions because:
a) modern mid-weight bikes all have them.
b) a decent adjustable suspension won't compel the owner of the bike to swap it out. Maybe swap the fork springs, but that's not compulsory nor expensive.

And yet, the first thing you see on the forums of even superbikes is, ”The stock brakes/suspension are garbage! Here’s how to replace them…” They’re not ‘compelled’ to do it by anybody but their warped misperceptions. I’m also surprised you only quote numbers. For example, an MT-07 is a VERY different experience than, while I want to use the Shiver as comparison, the GSX-S750. With very different riders to match. That ‘old’ design continues to be a popular top seller because of that experience. Refer to Andrew’s next quote.

Plus the other main thing you’re forgetting about that drives sales… The price.

SV riders especially should know that a motorcycle can be more than the sum of its parts.

Exactly. Plus, it’ll possibly be a more long-term first or second bike for newer/returning riders.

GSXR1000 have been in the 445 pound range since forever. It’s ridiculous Suzuki couldn’t make this bike 30 pounds lighter.

I’m sure they could have. Though Physics is HARD. And HOW much does a GSX-R1000 cost, compared to even the GSX-S1000, again? 😉

Like I said, had the Hornet been available, I’d have taken a HARD look at this bike when buying my SV. Again, the GSX-S750 is the bike I ‘should’ have bought, but the added complexity of the inline-4 and the much higher price made the SV the better choice. As much as I love the ‘retro’ styling of the SV, I also love the ‘angular’ looks of the new bikes. Plus, it’s a secondary concern for me, as I was even looking at used Gladiuses (Gladii?) Take Kawasaki’s Z900 and their ’retro’ version RS selling for a thousand or so more? No thanks! 😄

 

[Troy Jollimore]

Why do you keep calling it a ‘cow’ when it is only a little heavier than the SV? And 2022 doesn’t change physics. Metals are still metals. Carbon fiber is still expensive. Stuff costs what it costs. And big TFT displays, auto-blippers and quick-shifters are what sell bikes to new and younger riders. Ask any ‘influencer’ and they’ll say they’re must-haves!

This is the bike THEY asked for.

 

[Troy Jollimore]

Physics is the same. What changes is manufacturing techniques, and ways to save weight is part of advancing technology. Ever ridden an older motorcycle? I used to own a 1992 GSXR600, and that thing was close to 500 pounds. Motorcycles generally kept getting lighter and lighter as they advanced generations, even though more weight-adding features were introduced. Why is that? Technology.

And 20 pounds doesn’t sound like a lot of weight, but it’s significant on a motorcycle. Suzuki managed to make the SV650 first two generations with an aluminum frame and keep the price just right. Then the third gen they cheaped out with a steel frame, and of course the bike gained weight. And that didn’t change with this new bike. Those 20 pounds could’ve been saved with an aluminum frame. And like mentioned earlier, adding compression adjustment to the forks and rear shock is not something that would’ve raised costs in a significant way. Suzuki had an opportunity here and they made a bike that’s gonna get lost in the competition, instead of standing out in the competition. My guess is that they’re probably struggling, and had to cut costs (like leaving MotoGP), and now have to make some money back.

They can slightly cut back on weight, but only to a certain point. Then it starts getting more expensive the lighter you get... How much of that is Physics and how much of it is profit? That's only for their accountants to know for sure. You're also mentioning that a lot of techniques to 'cheapen' the product are used as well. Gotta keep that price down somehow! And yes, I've ridden bikes from the '70s and '80s (also have an '83 Honda Shadow 750), so I'm aware of the differences. However, you don't have a 500lb bike magically weigh 350lbs today because of 'techniques and technology'. More like 470lbs, if they're lucky. For example, my Gen3 SV weighs 437lbs, roughly? An '80s Honda Nighthawk 650 with an inline-4 weighed 463lbs.

I was also going to mention to @mad8vskillz , that the weight isn't welcome... But for riders like me, which I would think are the majority of buyers, we don't care about an extra few pounds here or there, so long as they're kept low so you don't feel it as much. The extra weight can help keep the bike stable, especially in the wind, and we'll never 'race' them. Besides, if I were serious about performance, I'd need to lose 30-50lbs MYSELF before doing it to the bike! LOL! I would imagine they also needed to axe the aluminum for rigidity for the expected added weight of newer components (and riders) for the same price.

@Skywalker67 ... That rider would be me. The SV650 was always in my list for consideration, but way down on it. Though I love it's looks, I also like the 'angular' looks of the Hornet and GSX-8S, along with the GSX-S, Kawi Z-bikes, Honda CBR-Fs, and the Yamaha MT's. The SV's price was one of the lowest, and definitely was for it's size, plus insurance costs were way lower than all of the others. But in hindsight, I'm glad it was what I ended up with! A couple of years ago, the local dealer were clearing out several Duke 790s for around the same price I paid for the SV. Was SO close to pulling the trigger, but sitting on that bike reminded me of a dirt bike. So tall and skinny, with similar-feeling bar and forks. Didn't really want that for the street, or wanted to gamble on reliability, so gave it a pass. Same with almost any Euro make, like the Aprilia Shiver. Love the looks, but I don't want any hassle. Those same reasons will probably apply to the GSX-8S vs. the Hornet/Trident.

 

[Troy Jollimore]

Now, now… We all tend to put on extra pounds as we age… 😉

 

[Troy Jollimore]

US
SV is $7400/$7850 (non/ABS)
GSX-S750 is $8550/$8950 (non/ABS)

Canada (all ABS)
SV is $9,000
GSX-S750 is $10,600
GSX-8S is $10,750

Being an old fogey, those numbers ring alarm bells, but that’s just where we are for how much things cost, I guess. The SV still makes sense as the ‘semi-beginner, all-round fun machine‘, with lower operating costs. But for less than $2k more? The other two would be within stretching distance if I were to want more giddy-up-go…