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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the threads I have seen here it appears that an 03 motor is a drop-in into a 1999 frame, but there are clearance issues with the EFI throttle bodies that can be worked out with a bit of grinding (and posssibly TIGing the frame back enclosed). If this is the case, are the 99+ heads the same as the 03+ heads?

(if the answer is yes, I am guessing the crank position sensor for the EFI is located off the crank on the SVs and not the cams like most inlines)

If this is true as well, then I am guesing '99 heads will bolt to a '03+ bottom end?

So, '03+ TBs with the rubber head mounts bolted to 99 heads (and 99 cyls?) to a '03+ bottom end in a 99 frame is possible within reason? Essentially, an EFI 1st gen is the outcome (and the goal)

Next question(s): Doing some quick math it appears that the SV is pretty darned efficient in terms of how much HP it makes for the size of the intake ports & (mostly) throttle bodies. Anyone ever turn new brass buterflies and bore the EFI TBs out a few mm's? If so, any noticeable gains?

The fuel injector is also at a pretty steep angle - anyone ever try and shower-injector the TB ala 748/9R? This is relatively simple with a bit of time and a welder...

Also, not that they would be hard to make, but is anyone producing longer velocity stacks for the SV?

( Or, anyone try the inverse and mod up some 748 TBs for the SV? They are quite a bit larger and already have pod filters and various velocity stacks available...)

And one last one - anyone have an idea of what the stock fuel pressure is set to? Raising this has always been a way to help a weezing Duc, but simply knowing it will be helpful to figure out an external fuel pump solution for the 99 tank and the 03 motor.

Ok - that is enough for now. :)
 
G

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heads are same,difference is only in intake boot(what you call rubber mounts).heads will swap around but you can just swap boots and get same.no need to take motor apart.all you need to turn your in to Fi is intake boots,rotor and stator,as far motor parts go.
TB's are biggest restrictor on fi motor.I have bored those back in 03 and we used them for couple season but still not enough.you can only go up to 42mm with stock ones.now we use bigger ones(not public info).our bike pulls straight in redline without hp curve flattening on top.combination of cams and size of TB's are why.
stock fuel pump will not fit inside 99-02 tank.it can be done but you need to cut and weld tank and do all kind fitting,not worth hassle.
as you probably know I used 03 complete motor in my 99-02 but I opted for flatslides instead FI.it is much simpler and motor made more power(bone stock with only flats on dynoed at 75hp).I also like flatslides better than FI.regardless what everybody say I find it easier to deal with and tune.
my present project is sv500.I am building one for myself to race which will be 03 frame with 99 motor.motor will be set up for FI.I will run those 42mm bored throttles on it.
 

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I injected a 99 bike and used:-

Rotor+pickup
Gear position sensor
Throttle bodies
Airbox
Tank+pump
Loom and ECU
Kill switch
Ignition switch
Throttle tube,holder and cables
Reg/rec
Thermostat housing
Fan needs re-wiring for inj loom

To clear the cross-members in the frame that go under the throttle bodies, I dented the tubes to clear the secondary butterfly motor and the re-circ valve has to be removed from the bottom of the airbox and blanked off.
I also heated up the airbox to form it round the rhs crossmember.
The two lugs on the back of the headsstock (hold std fairing trim brackets) need removing to clear the airbox.

The K3 tank fits pretty well on the early frame, just needing the rear brackets sorting out, but I made a different subframe with the seat slightly higher to suit the tank



 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Excellent info - Thanks guys!

I really had not thought of using a '03+ tank on the older frame, but it looks like it lines up pretty good. I was originally thinking of using an external fuel pump so my options were open (read: composite tank), but I doubt I will have the flow through a modified petcock that I would need and I would need to plumb the return line back in to the tank in some reasonable fashion.

Next round of questions:

I have no idea what the TBs measure up stock, but if your gut feel is that 42 is about right on a 500cc motor (I assume sleeved cylinders and not destroked crank - although the crank destroke w/longer rods works better in inline4s it turns out), how big do you suggest a TB for a 2mm over motor? Are the injectors working at 100% duty cycle, or are the TBs just too small in diameter? Or, the better question is do we know what the stock fuel pressure is as well as the size of the stock injector so we can figure out which is the case...

It seems that throttle bodies are 1000 times simpler than a carb (with all the different jets). If it simply is diameter problem and the stockers can not be bored large enough, why not chuck up some aluminum in the lathe, turn some "tubes", then machine/tig up up the stock TPS? Am I fogetting something important here (assuming a shower setup with no idle circuit as found on the stock ones...)??

Or, has we looked at SV1000 TBs as a possible donor?

I had really assumed the 99-02 motors were more different than the 03+. Other than the EFI, it appears the cams are really the only differnece in the motors (aside from the nasty tendency for the 03+ to snap rods for a variety of reasons...). Is this the case?

The new cases have a differernt sump (requiring the 03+ exhaust), but would an 03+ oiler cooler bolt to the older cases? I don't remember seeing the bosses on the old cases.

Also, do we know if the TRE mod will negate the need for a Gear Position Sensor hooked up (in other words, does the TRE mod fool the ECU enough to not need to add a gear position sensor for to the 99-02 motor)?
 

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I put a 2000 race head and cylinders on an 04 stock bottom end, no issue whatsoever. The reverse would be just as simple, aside from the clearance issues under the fuel tank.
 
G

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my 500 is stroked,I already built 3 of them but they are based on old frame and we run 39mm flats.my will be FI and I think 42mm TB's will be just fine.
on 650 bore will not matter much,stock or 2mm over,but you need big TB's :)
TB's are simple but when it comes to tunning you have to hook it up on computer and dyno to change,and also pay every time you do it.I can change jets on flats in 5 minutes and dont need dyno.you can do FI with lap top and no dyno but it is harder to tell exactly which part to change.that is where I find carbs easier.
there are many differences in motors but those dont matter for FI or carbs.unless you doing some home brew FI easiest is to just swap whole harness and all electrical components.
you can put oil cooler on old motor.
yews,gear sensor does make difference on FI motor.
I dont use secondaru batterflies.
that tank may fit on top of frame but that is not the way I would like it to fit.I dont like that gap on pic between tank and frame.
 

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I was trying to buld it within the UK rules, using all stock parts and making the most of the rule :- Parts may be fitted from a newer model of the same type.
Unfortunately the dents in the frame rails caused some discussion and it was not allowed to race, and because of the rules in our new thunderbike class I've got to take it all off again and put it on carbs ::)
 

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So how much power can be had from a 400cc motor?

Just think Rob, with the new SuperBike 400 rules in the UK you can do pretty much anything you like with your current bike as long as it is 400cc ;D
 
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