Another K3 with loose Magneto Magnets

OrangeBlood · Jul 24, 2013

Seems that lately there are lots of SV1000's popping up with loose magnets on the Magneto.

I've been very fortunate, while doing a valve check I couldn't get the generator plug cover off(stripped it actually). So I improvised, removed the entire Magneto cover and saw just one magnet had slightly moved forward a bit. I initially thought to myself, "Hey not bad! Just one moved a little." Nope, I was able to remove three of the six by hand. The other three were still extremely firm on the flywheel and wouldn't budge when I pried at them. I got some sand paper and cleaned it up a good bit. Got some fancy Epoxy by the name of JB Weld, and so far have two of the three buggers re-installed. I am considering this a temporary fix until I get a nice K5 flywheel. I have heard this can happen with K5's as well and a very good contact of mine has informed me to use the Epoxy to make barriers between the magnets. I am going to definitely shoot for this with my current Magneto to provide some additional peace of mind.

I just wanted to share that I, like a lot of others lately, am also plagued with the symptom. I wish we could determine the root cause of this problem. I have no doubt in my mind my bike was ragged on by her previous owner. She's probably very happy to be in my hands getting the attention she deserves.

I put a pic of my current progress, I'll try to update with more as I go along on my band aid solution. Yes, I do realize there is still oEM epoxy on the flywheel. I ran out of sand paper last night and wanted to be proactive so I mounted two of the three magnets and am sanding down the rest of the flywheel surface tonight before installing the third magnet :icon_biggrin:

Magnets when first removed, notice I was extremely lucky and epoxy is still stuck to them and not rummaging loose in my motor oil

Two of the three magnets with factory epoxy removed/cleaned up

Magneto with the three removed, prior to cleaning

Magneto with two magnets reinstalled as of this morning.

Again, this is my temporary fix until I get a K5 Magneto. Just wanted to share with all of you.

farmer_frank · Jul 24, 2013

Are there warning signs to this or is this just something to check from time to time?

Domiken · Jul 24, 2013

+1 Have the same question

I also have a 2003, would hate to have this happen to me while I'm on the road on a long trip.

Glad to see you tackled it quickly.

OrangeBlood · Jul 24, 2013

Honestly I never felt any warnings of this coming on, I'll report back if I notice any changes once I have her reassembled and running again. I could have bought the bike with them already loose(really wish I would have checked sooner). In the past, I have read up about people who don't address this and the magnets collide into each other and shatter or hit the Stator and damage it.

It's really simple to check this, I definitely encourage anyone with a K3(or even newer) to check. It's especially easy with a swingarm or spool stand as this will balance the oil better and you will only have a few small drops come out when you pull the cover off.

Domiken, just a heads up if you are still taking your 1000 to the track, the K5 magnetos are a approximately 2 lbs lighter than the K3's

LtDan · Jul 24, 2013

I have been through one rotor on my 05 already. You're lucky catching it when they were just loose two of my magnets were shattered.

schmidt314 · Jul 24, 2013

I did have few symptoms

http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1851932719&postcount=1

-MS

RecoilRob · Jul 24, 2013

Hey Mike! Do you think that potting the spaces between the magnets with the JB Weld would be beneficial? I was thinking that it would make all of them act as a unit rather than 6 individuals as it seems that one malcontent always breaks loose first, then starts working on its' neighbors and pretty soon everyone is crap. I can't think of any real negative to potting the whole shebang.....can you? Thanks!

schmidt314 · Jul 25, 2013

I am not sure. I think the advantages would be as you have stated, but disadvantages might be balance and the risk of the epoxy breaking out and causing other significant issues.

Some people have seemed to jump on the 03-04 and synthetic oil band wagon. Lots of other things also need to be considered such as torque of the bolt that holds it on and total balance of the units. The last one I replaced for someone I was tempted to send out the new one and have it checked for balance along with a couple of other good 03-04 rotors I have that came from other motors I know some of the history on.

I service several other SV1000s in my area and I am concerned about one recently. He rode one of mine and said his seems to vibrate more and buzz his hands a bit and mine did not after a 100 mile ride... I might have another one with magnet issues...

I am going to check my commuter again soon too. My 04 had a rotor fail at 38K miles and it is now about 70K miles so next oil change I figure I am going to check to make sure.

-MS

OrangeBlood · Jul 25, 2013

Mr. Schmidt, would you mind elaborating more on the subject of the synthetic oil? I would really appreciate reading on your thoughts. I don't know what the previous owner ran in my bike. I am using synthetic however, Respol 4T to be specific.

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schmidt314 · Jul 25, 2013

Some people have drawn a conclusion that this issue might be aggravated/caused by synthetic oil. I personally do not want to make any conclusions about this. I have observed failures on engines where the full history has been known some with synthetic and some not. I typically do not make any conclusion unless there is lots of data. My regular 9-5 job over the past 15 plus years has involved failure analysis and root cause analysis of integrated circuits, creating and executing Design of Experiments data collection and making some pretty high dollar engineering decisions based on the results. These things require lots of data and sound science, if I don't do this, I lose my job...

Head on over the SV1000 portal and search "magnets" I am sure several failures will come up, including a one I started when my high mile bike experienced a failure.

-MS

OrangeBlood · Jul 25, 2013

Mr. Schmidt,

thank you for your input. I tried researching what Suzuki recommended from the factory for the 1000(Suzuki Performance 4 motor oil). I cannot find any data if this oil is a synthetic or mineral type. I have found multiple variations of the Suzuki Performance 4 and only one stating specifically on the label that it is a Synthetic. This was also only a brief 5 minute google search.

I did clean up and install my 3rd and last magnet last night. I did not get time to add a pic, it was a very busy evening and I had to prioritize my time wisely. I will put one up tonight before checking all 3 again and reassembly.

LtDan · Jul 25, 2013

As far as oil as a failure agent I don't believe it. I'm using Rotella Dino oil and it was in the bike when the magnets came loose. I attribute the failures to really shoddy work from Suzuki. When I replaced my last rotor/flywheel I noticed that the epoxy bonding the magnets to the shell. Two small lines of epoxy about 3 mm wide centered around the inner circumference of the shell. What is amazing is that the TL has the magnets covered by a thin shell like Yamaha and Kawasaki do. I consider my SV so untrustworthy that I won't take it out of town or my local area, I was a hundred miles from home when my charging system failed (magnets) and I had to buy a new battery just to make it home. I think Suzuki should make it right by us but fat chance of that happening so for my upcoming 1200 mile vacation/bucket list ride with 9 of my buddies I bought a Yamaha FZ1 to go sport touring.

farmer_frank · Jul 25, 2013

Anyone know if the rotor off a v strom 1k will fit? I understand they're the same motors but I don't think i've ever heard of this problem with the stroms.

schmidt314 · Jul 25, 2013

They will fit but won't work correctly due to different indicators for the crank position sensor
-ms

farmer_frank · Jul 25, 2013

hm... Wonder if there is a way to make it work. Change of ecu? Not to familiar with with these ignition systems.

schmidt314 · Jul 25, 2013

Could it be done? Sure It could, but is it worth it with new ECU, wore harness, different injection map, different timing map and another flywheel? THere are plenty of reported cases of the DL shedding the magnets also.

I ran out to the garage real quick and pulled out a DL rotor and an SV rotor. DL unit is on the left.

-MS

chomorro · Jul 25, 2013

Hmmmm i have a k5 but im going to check this out anyways next oil change.

OrangeBlood · Aug 1, 2013

Just wanted to update everyone. I have had my bike buttoned up for a few days now. Took it easy around the back roads of my neighborhood and all felt good. I took her on the highway this morning and have to say that there is a noticeable difference across the RPM range. It's not a completely different bike, however, it is noticeably smoother in the rev's. I really wish I had taken the time to open my bike up last year when I bought her and addressed some of the issues I was reading about. Especially since my bike was plagued with a few of them(Green connector, Magneto, crappy intake mods from PO, chain and sprockets, tune up, lack of pair delete on 2-1 exhaust, etc, etc). None the less, my bike feels...much better. I am definitely going to order the K5 Magneto first chance I get and take it easy on the current one. I know I have some clutch vibration but truth be told, after riding in to work this morning I didn't even notice the clutch basket vibration. Upon my next oil change I plan to open the clutch cover up for a visual inspection. I was hoping to put off any clutch repairs just a little longer, but we'll see what happens next. Ideally I would love to have addressed major issues like this with a motor rebuild. I'm not ready for it yet, so I'll be fixing all the little things I can along the way.

Too all SV1000 owners, I strongly recommend opening the generator cover and just inspecting your magnets. After going to the portal per Mr. Schmidts recommendation, I was pretty amazed how many people have this problem. It's worth opening the generator cover just to have peace of mind for your 1000.

Good luck everyone! Hope you don't have loose or destroyed magnets. If you do, just know there is hope still.

RecoilRob · Aug 1, 2013

Man...I wish you would have been watching the voltage output all along just to answer the question: Do some loose magnets hurt the charging?

After reading about this issue before I took delivery of my bike...I had found a neat little volt-meter to install so the charging system could be easily monitored http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14/71/984/8115/ITEM/Kuryakyn-LED-Battery-Gauge.aspx . It would be great if the magnets moving around would show something on a volt-meter and I suspect it might hurt the idle charging enough that you'd notice that something is wrong. But this is still just conjecture and will need to be verified down the road when my magnets come loose.

Hopefully....I'll never get to answer that question!!

You have installed the Eastern Beaver headlight relays...right OB? If so....did you include a switch to shut them off? Being able to reduce the battery load might cut down the distance you need to push in the event of a future magneto failure. At least that is the plan. Man...you've made quite the improvement in your bike! Well done.

OrangeBlood · Aug 2, 2013

Thanks RR, I actually still have not ordered the EB headlight relay kit. I wanted to wait to see what would come of the Magneto repair before pulling the trigger on the headlight harness.

While moving I found one of my boxes full of electronics and connectors and fun little gadgets. Including a few on/off toggle switches. I need to confirm if any of them are weather proof. If not, I'll order one with the EB relay harness.

I'll be opening the Generator cover up one more time in about 100 miles to confirm all is holding in place. If it looks good, I'll get the harness next, then the K5 magneto. Kiddo's got football camps this month putting a bit of dampner on my bike funds

Otherwise I'd already have a K5 magneto, eb harness and a nitrous injection system installed by now!

J/K on the nitrous, I know better.

RecoilRob · Aug 2, 2013

J/K on the nitrous, I know better.

One of the guys over on the Portal put the giggle-gas on his SV, and then posted up his dyno chart. Got to say...it would a bit hard to use when it hit, but at the drags once you got through the first couple gears it would likely help keep those pesky GSXR's from chasing you down on the big end.

OrangeBlood · Aug 4, 2013

Why must you always temp me

I feel my inner fast and furious geek coming out! Okay, so how big of a shot is that guy hitting? I assumed N20 on bikes is much much lower, but it looks about a 40-50hp shot?

DougZ · Aug 3, 2013

What are the symtoms of this issue?

I have had my SV1K(03) for years, and never even heard of this issue. Of course, I am not on the SV boards nearly as much as I was years ago.

RecoilRob · Aug 3, 2013

DougZ said:
What are the symtoms of this issue?

Increased vibration when they've all broken loose and clumped together on one side of the rotor, and the charging system starts to lose effectiveness. That second part is just a guess because nobody with a voltmeter to monitor out on the road has had this happen (that I know of). The magnetic flux must be disturbed by the magnets not being evenly spaced so the output would likely be reduced.

When they get really bad...they make contact with the stator and mash themselves into chunks and have actually seized a motor when they get wedged. It's NOT good. The excessive vibration is probably the tip-off that most could recognize and hopefully check before doing any more damage.

OrangeBlood · Aug 3, 2013

Hi Doug,

Mine is an 03 and had this issue. I also noticed this problem mostly on K3's when I first heard of it. Over on the portal it seems more bikes(k3-k5) are affected by it. It is honesty very simple to open the generator cover to inspect the magneto. If you haven't done so yet, it is well worth your time.

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DougZ · Aug 3, 2013

ok, thanks for the info. I'll look into it.

OrangeBlood · Aug 13, 2013

Just thought I'd update, I've gone 100 miles so far and checked to ensure the magnets are holding. They are very firm and holding well. I'm pleased so far.

RecoilRob · Aug 13, 2013

Good! And it's 'glass smooth' too....right?

It might be wishful thinking, but do you think it's running any smoother....enough that you might realize they have slipped by the vibration?

OrangeBlood · Aug 14, 2013

Well I can't confirm smoother, however I had vibrations between 2,500 and 3,000 rpm that are now gone! I've tried to replicate them several times as I originally attributed them to the clutch basket(as we know also a common problem). To my surprise it was my loose magnets all along. She rides very well now and low rpm is once again improved so I am extremely pleased.

EDIT*

Okay I will say MUCH smoother today. However, I also did an oil change since I last rode her. I also went into the PCIII map and disabled the Accel Pump as well as changed some of the idle mixture. I haven't tweaked any other RPM ranges on the map but she ran very smooth this morning. I'm impressed!

ralph glorioso · Aug 19, 2013

I have to wonder if riding style plays a part in rotors divorcing their magnets.

Granted, it's a subjective measurement, but are all of those who have had rotors detach riders who "whale the tar out of their bikes" or are they in some cases serene plodders, like this septuagenarian rider.

It seems totally likely that riders who accelerate into and decelerate from the upper rpm ranges would be more likely to see loose magnets than riders who ride with a somewhat weak right wrist. Any thoughts on this?

My '03 SV-1000N has almost 40K miles and not a problem since I bought it new in July, 2003. Still has original plugs (but not oil, thank you).

Notwithstanding my flaccid right wrist, I intend to pull the rotor cover off to have a look. I fitted a voltmeter years ago and never have had an unwanted reading.

Ralph

Maverick · Aug 28, 2013

Well, yes another Magneto bites the dust and I have to get another one.

However, funny thing, I am trying to get away from spending the $500 dollars that it will take to replace the whole thing. Both parts are roughly $250ish.

So, I am looking for any 'long-term' suggestions however I guess i need not be cheap and just spend the $500 dollars to replace the part. O' I guess I should mention if that if I do, does anyone have the part to remove the magneto and if so do you want to sell it?

Thanks Fellow SV'rs

OrangeBlood · Aug 28, 2013

Are you aware the Magneto assembly is under $300 from ronayers?

Another K3 with loose Magneto Magnets

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