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Swapping for a 2nd gen engine

8K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  Kind 
#1 ·
I've done a "little" bit of research on this topic, but only found stuff on putting a 1st gen in a 2nd gen frame but it's it possible to put a 2003+ motor in a 2002 frame?
 
#11 ·
I been trying to figure out how to convert to FI the hard way retaining the stock gen 1 tank with aftermarket ECU controlling the fueling and ignition timing.

I't doable, but the hardest part is fabricating/mounting suitable crank angle sensing equipment for said aftermarket brain.

I wonder how many timing "nubs" are on the Gen 2 rotor..
 
#17 ·
I wonder how many timing "nubs" are on the Gen 2 rotor..
There are 24 pole positions, 22 populated with 2 missing to indicate TDC (relative).

The diagram below is for the SV1K but the FI 650 is the same with respect to timing poles. This beautiful diagram was drawn by Bozo from the svdownunder site.

If you want use an after market ECM, try contacting GrahmaB. He installed a MicroSquirt on an SV650 race bike, is a wealth of knowledge and helpful guy too. Haven't seen him around in a while but he might answer PMs.

If using a custom ECM, it's likely the stock 4 pole rotor on the Gen1 could be made to work, so no need to muk with the crank position sensor or swap rotor.
 
#16 ·
Only small, practical stuff. And even then, I might not finish something by the weekend, so then I rush in the morning and wonder whether I remembered to tighten everything before I head out. Swapping engines and swingarms, you're down for a while. But if I had a second ride, a project bike would be cool.
 
#18 ·
Sweet! 24-2 and 4-1 that is definitely compatible with most aftermarket brains. Do you know if grahmaB is running a gen 1 or gen 2?

I've been looking at the microsquirt in Dual Spark setting for the SV, where 2 separate tach inputs are used. One signaling TDC for the front cylinder and one for the rear cylinder. I've an idea how to get a tach signal from the camshaft. Tho, im not so sure if the microsquirt will run dual spark with only one crank angle signal, or a crank signal and a cam angle signal. The "manual" specifies dual crank input or dual cam inputs, but says nothing about crank/cam signal combo for odd-fire applications. Adding a second crank signal for the rear cylinder may prove difficult. 2 cam signals is much easier to rig than adding another crank signal for the rear cylinder.

Unless grahmaB has figured out how to control odd-fire with only one crank signal....
 
#19 ·
I believe Graham's is gen2 all the way, he just wanted the control and flexibility of the MicroSquirt. That allows custom fuel maps custom ignition timing, and any of the other parameters one might want to tweak.

Kind, why would more than one crank (or cam) reference be needed? More poles gives better resolution on absolute crank position, but once you have that, it doesn't seem a second source is needed ...

On a related note, there was an interesting thread a few months ago about how the SV650 knows cam position (doesn't have a cam sensor like the early SV1Ks). Turns out the ECM determines that based on the pulses from the IAP (connected to cyl#1). Pretty cool.
 
#21 ·
Kind, why would more than one crank (or cam) reference be needed? More poles gives better resolution on absolute crank position, but once you have that, it doesn't seem a second source is needed ...

On a related note, there was an interesting thread a few months ago about how the SV650 knows cam position (doesn't have a cam sensor like the early SV1Ks). Turns out the ECM determines that based on the pulses from the IAP (connected to cyl#1). Pretty cool.
Pretty cool. The dual signal is used by microsquirt in Dual Spark mode. basically it's controlled as if it's 2 different engines. One signal take care of the front cylinder ignition/fueling, and the second signal is used to make computations for the rear cylinder.
 
#20 ·
Also, doing away with the stock crank signal would allow quite a bit of weight to be machined off the rotor/clutch assembly with can increase the longevity of high HP 650 blocks. (basically you can machine the timing nubs clean off of the rotor running dual cam signal.)

If one chooses to go total loss, the rotor can be omitted from the assembly since the crank signal is no longer needed with dual camshaft signals on the microsquirt.
 
#22 ·
OK, I see, I don't know much about the microsquirt.

It seems like unnecessary complexity though since a single crank position signal should be able to give engine position for any number of cylinders given all run on the same shaft.

A single mark would be the base then each cylinder could work from an offset.

Nevertheless, it would be an interesting project. :)
 
#23 ·
That's the extent of my knowledge of the microsquirt from what i've read. I don't have one on hand i can play with.

I figure the setup for the microsquirt will probably cost as much as a set of new FCR carbs. for the gen 2 it would be much less and much easier to set up for obvious reasons. although i'm not sure what's the advantage of using a microsquirt over a power commander on a 2'nd gen.
 
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